Dark Willow and Redeemability

[Btvs fan]

The problem was the focus on Willow concerned she would lose control of her magic, as opposed to her feelings over the events of s6 - it's not just the killing of Warren (and her attempts to kill Jonathan & Tucker's brother) - she threatened to end Dawn, tried to kill Buffy, Anya and Giles and then - influenced by the magics she took from Giles - tried to end the world.

And this is a point I've discussed in the past - when you're a Scooby, essentially all is forgiven. There was a bit of concern from the gang in the episode Same Time, Same Place, but aside from that, was welcomed back into the fold.

When you're not part of the inner circle? Different story. Example: Faith still received side-eye from everyone even though she was good and on the path to redemption.

That wasn't even her either. She was just worried her friends might not like her.

Her mind raping (twice) of Tara was not even considered a subject or issue.
Also turning Magic into a Drug metaphor when only the season before it had been a Lesbian metaphor was a bad move too

 

[hoponlilmama]

That wasn't even her either. She was just worried her friends might not like her.

Exactly, and that was the issue.

And the gang expressed their concern that Willow was evil, which lasted for two seconds. Not a shred of anger - well, a tiny bit from Anya, and that's all.

Her mind raping (twice) of Tara was not even considered a subject or issue.

The issue of sexual assault/consent was never properly covered in the series (for multiple characters), unfortunately.

Also turning Magic into a Drug metaphor when only the season before it had been a Lesbian metaphor was a bad move too

Sigh. Well, we all know the writing took a dip and went off the rails in s6 and s7...

 

[Btvs fan]

Exactly, and that was the issue.

And the gang expressed their concern that Willow was evil, which lasted for two seconds. Not a shred of anger - well, a tiny bit from Anya, and that's all.


The issue of sexual assault/consent was never properly covered in the series (for multiple characters), unfortunately.


Sigh. Well, we all know the writing took a dip and went off the rails in s6 and s7...

But thats no excuse. All the writers with the exception of Drew Goddard (he was S7) worked in Season 5. Joss although not on set day to day still went through the script and story decisions. Its on him

 

[hoponlilmama]

But thats no excuse. All the writers with the exception of Drew Goddard (he was S7) worked in Season 5. Joss although not on set day to day still went through the script and story decisions. Its on him

Joss and the writers had a hand in it.
The series had a clear plan up until s5, then we saw what happened from that point onward.

 

[garfan]

Joss and the writers had a hand in it.
The series had a clear plan up until s5, then we saw what happened from that point onward.

I feel like we've heard to many could have beens to say their was a clear plan. There was a plan, but it was vague

 

[Btvs fan]

I feel like we've heard to many could have beens to say their was a clear plan. There was a plan, but it was vague

@hoponlilmama
From what writers like Fury etc have said is that Joss normally had an end point but nothing in how to get there in between. Case in point Season 3, he wanted to blow up the school and have Buffy lead the kids in the fight but Faith was originally going to kill herself and Mr Trick was originally going to kill the Mayor and take his place.

In fact Iv listened to an Interview with Harry Groener that for Graduation Day they didn't have a script on set. He said Joss would be in his Office writing out pages then handing them out on set to cast and crew.

 

[hoponlilmama]

I feel like we've heard to many could have beens to say their was a clear plan. There was a plan, but it was vague

@hoponlilmama
From what writers like Fury etc have said is that Joss normally had an end point but nothing in how to get there in between. Case in point Season 3, he wanted to blow up the school and have Buffy lead the kids in the fight but Faith was originally going to kill herself and Mr Trick was originally going to kill the Mayor and take his place.

In fact Iv listened to an Interview with Harry Groener that for Graduation Day they didn't have a script on set. He said Joss would be in his Office writing out pages then handing them out on set to cast and crew.

It's splitting hairs. Whether it was a plan, or a 'clear' plan - there was a general point A to point B in place up to season 5. It's certain they veered some from season to season as the writers put things together - examples like Angel leaving, Spike being kept on past s2, Spuffy because the writers listened to fans.

Things are more consistent s1 - s5. The last two is a different story.

 

[Btvs fan]

It's splitting hairs. Whether it was a plan, or a 'clear' plan - there was a general point A to point B in place up to season 5. It's certain they veered some from season to season as the writers put things together - examples like Angel leaving, Spike being kept on past s2, Spuffy because the writers listened to fans.

Things are more consistent s1 - s5. The last two is a different story.

I disagree. Having an end point is not being consistent.
The fact Joss was literally having to write script pages and hand them out on set should be an issue. Btw on rewatch of Graduation Day Part 1, I noticed that Xander and Cordelia essentially have the same conversation 3 times about the up coming Graduation Day and nothing new is said, its basically just filler. You could literally chop them out of the episode and not miss anything.

 

[hoponlilmama]

I disagree. Having an end point is not being consistent.
The fact Joss was literally having to write script pages and hand them out on set should be an issue. Btw on rewatch of Graduation Day Part 1, I noticed that Xander and Cordelia essentially have the same conversation 3 times about the up coming Graduation Day and nothing new is said, its basically just filler. You could literally chop them out of the episode and not miss anything.

Overall arcs and a start and end point to the series is consistent. As I said, things obviously had to change during the making of each season for various reasons, but there was an overall plan up until s5.

Anyway, this is getting off topic about Willow and redemption.