Question What was the plan for Faith?

[Guy]

Remember how in the first episode of season 2 of 'Angel', we see Angel meeting Faith in prison ("The road to redemption is a rocky path")? Well, that scene MUST have been set-up for something, right? The writers must have had a role planned for Faith in that season, and that role must have been written out later, when the season changed (Probably around the same time that they decided to wrap up the main Darla arc in episode 16, instead of letting it play out all the way to the finale). So, what do you think they were planning for Faith?

Personally, I kinda think that they were originally planning to have Angel go bad and lose his soul (probably by sleeping with Darla, but maybe in some other way), and then have Faith save him from himself and bring him back. You know, like they eventually did in season 4, but hopefully better - without the wildly out-of-character Angelus, and with a better excuse for Angelus to return, and without the crappy Jasmine stuff.

What do you think? What did they plan for Faith in season 2?

 

[white avenger]

The writers must have had a role planned for Faith in that season, and that role must have been written out later, when the season changed

It may just be a coincidence, but that was about the time that Eliza would have been filming the first "Silent Bob" movie, followed closely by 3 others. Possibly, Joss had wanted Faith to come back, but she was just too busy to do it.

Pretty much the same scenario was used to get her back in Season 5, at which time Eliza was obviously free and available.

 

[Guy]

It may just be a coincidence, but that was about the time that Eliza would have been filming the first "Silent Bob" movie, followed closely by 3 others. Possibly, Joss had wanted Faith to come back, but she was just too busy to do it.

Yes, I think you're right - that was probably the reason why Faith wasn't there. I'm just interested in what you think were the plans for her character before her schedule killed it.

Pretty much the same scenario was used to get her back in Season 5, at which time Eliza was obviously free and available.

You mean season 4, right?

 

[Xin Rong]

I don't know, it seems like what unfolded may have been the plan for Faith, less time in prison would have reduced the effect of her agreeing to be put there in the first place. She needed serious time.

 

[Guy]

I don't know, it seems like what unfolded may have been the plan for Faith, less time in prison would have reduced the effect of her agreeing to be put there in the first place. She needed serious time.

I don't know, her 3 years in jail always felt like way too much time for me... And if they would have gotten Faith out near the end of season 2, then it would still be a full year in prison, which is quite enough.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

I don't think there was any plan for Faith.

When I saw Judgment, I wasn't left with the impression that she would play a major role. I believe Faith was there so the audience could see that she hadn't been forgotten, that Angel visited her and that prison was good for her. Also, Faith was part of Angel's redemption arc, seeing as he was mentoring her on how to redeem herself, and the "Think we might make it?"/ "We might" exchange foreshadowed S2. Imo, that's all there was to it. No big plan for Faith there.

 

[Guy]

I don't think there was any plan for Faith.

When I saw Judgment, I wasn't left with the impression that she would play a major role. I believe Faith was there so the audience could see that she hadn't been forgotten, that Angel visited her and that prison was good for her. Also, Faith was part of Angel's redemption arc, seeing as he was mentoring her on how to redeem herself, and the "Think we might make it?"/ "We might" exchange foreshadowed S2. Imo, that's all there was to it. No big plan for Faith there.

Number 1 rule about season openers - when they're good, almost everything about them is foreshadowing in some way. If they just wanted to check in with Faith, it would have worked just as well in 1x22, or in any other episode. By putting it in the season opener, I think they were trying to foreshadow her eventual return.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

By putting it in the season opener, I think they were trying to foreshadow her eventual return.

I never saw it that way. To me, it was just a one time thing. After S3, Faith popped up on both shows twice, so it was just another small appearance. I wasn't disappointed when Faith didn't have a bigger role in S2. I never expected her to have one.

 

[Guy]

I never saw it that way. To me, it was just a one time thing. After S3, Faith popped up on both shows twice, so it was just another small appearance. I wasn't disappointed when Faith didn't have a bigger role in S2. I never expected her to have one.

Well, you're clearly not an obsessed Faith fan like me! 😛

I spent every episode from 'Sanctuary' to 'Salvage' hoping she'd pop up again...

 

[GwenRaiden]

I always wondered this too, to an extent. But then I came to the conclusion the scene was more about Angel. I'm glad we got that scene though, because I like the interaction and the fact that such a big event wasn't just ignored. A slayer in prison is a big deal; and if there was foreshadowing, I guess more scenes of Angel visiting Faith in jail would have made sense within season two. With Angel paralleling Faith's arc in BtVS (and AtS) (isolating himself from the group, taking a dark path), maybe his prison visits with Faith would be there to reflect what Angel did for her when she was at rock bottom, to help him remember the way. How much that would have changed the season, I dunno.

 

[white avenger]

I'm just interested in what you think were the plans for her character before her schedule killed it.

Could it possibly be that Joss already knew at that point that "Buffy" was going to end on WB after 5 Seasons, and he was already planning for a Faith spinoff? That's at best a stretch, I know, but Joss is the kind of guy who might have been working on something like that.

More likely, I think that, if Faith had come back in Season 2 of "Angel," she would have had a recurring role on one or the other of the two shows from that point on, popping up whenever some extra muscle was needed (They could definitely have used her in the final battle against Glory, and it might have even led into her being around for the first couple of episodes of Season 6, with her filling in for Buffy. Course, that's just my imagination running rampant again) It just so happened that Eliza wound up being pretty steadily obligated to other projects at that time.

 

[Monkey Pants]

I'm not sure if that scene was supposed to start an arc for Faith, but I wish it had! She was severely underused imo. She could have been in either ats 2/3, or btvs 5/6, and definitely ats 5! Sigh.

 

[Guy]

I always wondered this too, to an extent. But then I came to the conclusion the scene was more about Angel. I'm glad we got that scene though, because I like the interaction and the fact that such a big event wasn't just ignored. A slayer in prison is a big deal; and if there was foreshadowing, I guess more scenes of Angel visiting Faith in jail would have made sense within season two. With Angel paralleling Faith's arc in BtVS (and AtS) (isolating himself from the group, taking a dark path), maybe his prison visits with Faith would be there to reflect what Angel did for her when she was at rock bottom, to help him remember the way. How much that would have changed the season, I dunno.

I like it! Faith would be the gal that Angel turns to throughout the season, when he's in doubt. She'd be his Giles. A young, hot, non-british, female, incarcerated Giles.

Could it possibly be that Joss already knew at that point that "Buffy" was going to end on WB after 5 Seasons, and he was already planning for a Faith spinoff? That's at best a stretch, I know, but Joss is the kind of guy who might have been working on something like that.

That's very possible. We know that Faith was on his mind at the time - he wanted to put her in 'Restless', and he originally wanted to write a comics story about her instead of Fray.

More likely, I think that, if Faith had come back in Season 2 of "Angel," she would have had a recurring role on one or the other of the two shows from that point on, popping up whenever some extra muscle was needed (They could definitely have used her in the final battle against Glory, and it might have even led into her being around for the first couple of episodes of Season 6, with her filling in for Buffy. Course, that's just my imagination running rampant again) It just so happened that Eliza wound up being pretty steadily obligated to other projects at that time.

Oooh, Faith after Buffy's death would be awesome! And I'd LOVE to parallel Buffy with Faith in season 6 - when Buffy was more Faith-like than ever.

I'm not sure if that scene was supposed to start an arc for Faith, but I wish it had! She was severely underused imo. She could have been in either ats 2/3, or btvs 5/6, and definitely ats 5! Sigh.

Yeah... And if Faith had been in season 5 of AtS (instead of Tru Calling), then maybe Joss could have started a Faith show immediately after Angel was cancelled, and then the Buffyverse would have lived on in television, for at least a few more years!

 

[Bluebird]

Like @Carrie Hopewell and @GwenRaiden have said, I also think the scene is more about Angel. The whole episode was about Angel's experience and his knowing his place in the world. After his failures in Judgement and his realisation of why he fights (again), I thought the episode came to a natural conclusion with him visiting Faith. That relationship sums up why he fights. No whiteboard needed, it's not a race, just redemption.

 

[white avenger]

Oooh, Faith after Buffy's death would be awesome! And I'd LOVE to parallel Buffy with Faith in season 6 - when Buffy was more Faith-like than ever.

It would have been really interesting to see Faith as the one who Buffy confides that she was really ripped out of Heaven, and not Hell, rather than Spike (maybe, just as Faith is leaving town, "Okay, B, you're back now. Guess I'll hit the road before we wind up at each other's throats again. Give me a call, next time the s**t hits the fan, and I'll be back.")

 

[Monkey Pants]

It would have been really interesting to see Faith as the one who Buffy confides that she was really ripped out of Heaven, and not Hell, rather than Spike (maybe, just as Faith is leaving town, "Okay, B, you're back now. Guess I'll hit the road before we wind up at each other's throats again. Give me a call, next time the s**t hits the fan, and I'll be back.")

And then they would get together <3

 

[Guy]

Like @Carrie Hopewell and @GwenRaiden have said, I also think the scene is more about Angel. The whole episode was about Angel's experience and his knowing his place in the world. After his failures in Judgement and his realisation of why he fights (again), I thought the episode came to a natural conclusion with him visiting Faith. That relationship sums up why he fights. No whiteboard needed, it's not a race, just redemption.

Yes, this is all true. But it can ALSO be other things, on top of that - like foreshadowing for some Faith arc that we never got to see.

It would have been really interesting to see Faith as the one who Buffy confides that she was really ripped out of Heaven, and not Hell, rather than Spike (maybe, just as Faith is leaving town, "Okay, B, you're back now. Guess I'll hit the road before we wind up at each other's throats again. Give me a call, next time the s**t hits the fan, and I'll be back.")

Aw, but I love the scene where Buffy tells it to Spike... Couldn't Buffy tell it to both of them? Like "Okay, you're the only two people in Sunnydale I literally can't stand, so listen up".

And then they would get together <3

I can get behind that story.😉

 

[white avenger]

And then they would get together <3

I think that Fuffy is something that should be speculated on, wondered about, even sometimes hinted at, but should never actually be consummated, simply because it's the mystery that makes it so deliciously appealing. Once that mystery is gone, it just becomes another relationship for Joss to use, abuse, and cast aside. That's why Spuffy has remained so popular for so long, despite all of its detractors, and the major reason that I personally, regretfully, see it now as a doomed relationship. Joss just can't leave "happy" alone. He has to destroy it, and the happier it is, the more pleasure he takes in the destruction. Let's face it. The REAL First Evil in the Buffyverse is Joss Whedon.
 

Aw, but I love the scene where Buffy tells it to Spike... Couldn't Buffy tell it to both of them? Like "Okay, you're the only two people in Sunnydale I literally can't stand, so listen up".

Maybe Buffy could tell Faith, then Faith could tell Spike ("So, that's the real story, pal. That's why she's gonna need a whole lot of help and support with what's coming. I can't be here for her, so I'm counting on you to take care of her. For both of us.") could have made for a very interesting story line. Just imagine Faith coming back to town for a short visit just in time to help the house fall down. Now, tell me THAT wouldn't have been interesting, not to mention, a totally new "first" for Joss.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I don't think the network would've allowed Buffy to be gay hence why it was Willow instead. I'm sure I read somewhere though that it was a choice between Spillow or Spuffy, and Joss went with Spuffy? A Buffy/Faith pairing would've been interesting though.

 

[Guy]

Just imagine Faith coming back to town for a short visit just in time to help the house fall down.

And there I go, imagining a Spike/Buffy/Faith threesome that brings down that house in 'Smashed'...🙂