Thoughts on Kennedy

Dawn kicked Buffy out. Kennedy did call for a vote for Faith to lead for awhile, IIRC, but others had already said Buffy needed to calm down and think it through.

Far be it for me to try to make sense out of the worst episode of the worst season, however, or how much of the dialog doesn't even make sense and feels more like a bad Spuffy fanfic written by a teenager than writers who helped create the show (but apparently forgot what happened in previous seasons, at least before season 5, going by the dialog).

Looking at the dialog again just now (via Buffyworld), I can see why I assumed some evil spell was at work rather than the characters being themselves. It just doesn't make sense, from acting as if this was how Buffy always did it (who worked WITH her friends in previous seasons, not lording it over them) to Giles blaming Buffy for Jenny's death (since that wasn't Buffy acting recklessly). But then how in the hell could a person kick someone out of her own home that she owned? And...no, not going into the idiocy of this season again, and how the writers weren't even trying (and I did read an interview somewhere of a writer describing their burnout with Buffy and wanting to get it over with so they could move on to other projects). I don't think I'll ever watch this season again (and it was why it was years before I gave Angel a chance as I figured it had gotten just as crappy).

As a final note, I wasn't that fond of Kennedy, but I wasn't fond of many. And this is the only season I disliked Buffy herself.
 
thrasherpix said:
Dawn kicked Buffy out. Kennedy did call for a vote for Faith to lead for awhile, IIRC, but others had already said Buffy needed to calm down and think it through.
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Kennedy shot herself in the foot when she told Faith that she thought having Faith in charge would mean she would get a bigger say. To me, that says Kennedy's motivation in getting Faith "elected" was less about Faith being a better leader than Buffy, and more about Kennedy thinking she would be in a position of power. All of Kennedy's actions are basically an attempt at power grabbing.

Think about it, one of the first things she does when she arrives is start aggressively pursuing Willow romantically. When Willow eventually gives in, Kennedy is suddenly allowed to attend Scooby meetings. Kennedy then starts trying to undermine Buffy by publicly criticising her and trying to get Willow (a valuable Scooby member) to agree with her point of view (even jumping down Willow's throat if she disagrees with Kennedy or looks like she's about too). Since Buffy is busy with Spike and other things, Kennedy starts using her relationship with Willow to wheedle herself into positions of power such as leading the training session for the potentials where she bullies and publicly humiliates Chloe. Kennedy then starts brownnosing Faith and initiates the mutiny that results in Buffy being thrown out of her own house in order to get Faith into the leadership position. Kennedy obviously thought her brownnosing would give her influence with Faith because she complains that she isn't getting the bigger say that she expected from Faith.

Kennedy sowing discourse amongst the scoobies in an attempt at power grabbing only made the First's job easier. The prime example being the First talking Chloe into suicide.
 
i think maybe me disliking her was due to bad acting. i tried to like her but i just felt as though i was still grieving Tara and it was a bit of a shock for me. i think willow was still grieving as well and it was the last season. bit unnecessary in a way?
 
Looking for a place to rant; this seems the newest...
I was rewatching, myself. (15 episodes through season 7) I had forgotten.
I can’t stand Kennedy.
All the reasons people mention, and more.
She’s arrogant and spoiled are the barest tip of the iceberg.
She acts like she runs things, having had no past involvement or experience.
I often get a vibe that her actions are indirect; simply a means to sex, or to getting to be included in leadership roles, more than about building anything meaningful with the person she’s interacting with.
Even when given hints or direct comments about serious/traumatic things having happened in the past, she consistently brushes off either the hint or the event, itself.
She is cheerful and enthusiastic about being seriously harsh to someone (harsh enough, in fact, that it plays a role in said character committing suicide, which she never really seems to feel anything about for more than a second, if that).
Her sexual predator aggression toward a character who is currently visibly fragile and uncertain are a huge ew factor. (That could be viewed as an extreme opinion, but if it were a man in the role, many would [sadly] think it worse. Also, it felt a lot pushier BECAUSE of the pushiness being in spite of warnings that the person was uncomfortable. She started by maneuvering herself into Willow’s room and acting assuming that they could fool around. And she lied to get them alone, then made it known she was trying to get her drunk, said it was ‘sexy’ that Willow was pouting, aka uncomfortable, and dismissed anything important Willow tried to share.)
Seriously reprehensible to me are her frequent comments to a person with a known history of addiction and current struggling... “I bet you’re cool when you’re doing it. What’s the worst that could happen. You should do it.” (Surprised nobody else online has made that comment.) When she finally sees the addiction at work, she’s unsupportive, to say the least.
I’m starting to remember more of the episodes I haven’t rewatched yet, after comments, so I know I’ll keep getting more annoyed...

That’s just the basic opinion on her, period. As to her relationship with Willow, it’s weird and awkward and bad. She shoved her way in with lies and smooth talk and seduction, without ever really caring about what she’s told or how Willow feels. Willow, in turn, has had two deeply committed relationships. Okay, maybe she needed something light in the wake of that. But it was badly done; it kept wobbling on the line between deep romantic connection and just sexual attraction, without really getting deep into or developing either one. Feels like the only purpose is to annoy viewers. Willow went from timid and adorable, to finally confident, to arrogant, to kinda wishy-washy, in my opinion. She still has her good moments, but I feel like seeing her with Kennedy damages my view of her. Also the point about it seeming superficial, like Kennedy has other, more important motives.

Of course, I never cared that much about Tara. She was sweet and nice and cute, but that’s it. I just didn’t find her especially interesting. And I didn’t like Willow when she was with her, until a bit of the way into the relationship. She seemed to take Tara for granted/take advantage of her; keeping her secret, etc. Once Tara got some confidence, they started working together and balancing MUCH better, IMO.

Oz was quirky and caring. I found him enjoyable AND loved them together. That was my favorite Willow relationship.

One thing that irked me was the way Willow’s sexual preference was defined. After ALL that time with Oz, during which they were shown to have an enjoyably sexual relationship, as soon as they had her in a relationship with a woman, they repeatedly made comments during the show that she ‘found out’ she was a lesbian. They took it far enough to make it clear that she couldn’t love a male now without magically changing him to a female. They basically completely dismissed her relationship with Oz, which lasted a few seasons. Maybe at the time of airing, bisexuality wasn’t a subject they wanted to bring up on television...? It just strikes me as really awkward.

Anyway, Kennedy sucks, lol. [to me; no offense to those who like her] Sorry for late entry. I paused the show to search for a place to vent!
 
Also want to add (don’t see an edit button for my above comment);
In the process of lying to get Willow alone, she shirked the Potential training she was so mouthy and bossy and pushy about taking seriously. Hypocrisy is a quick way to lose points with me.

Another note:
I saw some questioning of people who like Faith not liking Kennedy.
First, I was never really a Faith ‘fan’. She pissed me off frequently in the earlier seasons. I still have to finish rewatching the episodes with her in S7, then rewatch Angel. But she was at least interesting to watch, and I like her WAY more than Kennedy. Faith was impulsive and selfish and so on. But she also had serious personal problems and insecurities, including extreme trauma. So at least there were REASONS for her behavior, and she eventually had an epiphany and tried to correct things. Also, she was at least interesting; she had a specific way of talking and moving, so it felt like there was at least a character hook. And she and the Mayor were bizarrely adorable together. Even when Faith started unthinkingly/unknowingly mouthing off about things that were sensitive subjects, before she got crazy with the emotional trauma, she would at least back off when asked. She was also usually direct about what she wanted, rather than playing games, and when someone isn’t interested, she lets it go. (Mostly not counting Angel, as it was during her acting out phase.) Absolutely not fully condoning all her behavior; there are some things about her I really dislike. But there’s at least some stuff I can defend.
Kennedy, in contrast, has no depth. She doesn’t have anything especially unique to make her quirky or interesting to me. Her background is rich girl who’s had lessons. No known serious traumas. When she mouths off about stuff and gets asked to stop, or warned that there’s emotional fragility there, she brushes it off and repeats the behavior, which feels a lot more offensive from her, since she ACTS sensitive and so on. She just keeps upping the bad behavior. Doesn’t even pause to contemplate when she contributes to cause of suicide; Faith at least clearly reacted to killing a human, even if it led to denial and acting out. When Kennedy wants someone, she pushes, regardless of whether interest is shown.
While they’re both enthusiastic and outspoken, I don’t think you can directly compare.
 
Metria37KI said:
She’s arrogant and spoiled are the barest tip of the iceberg.
She acts like she runs things, having had no past involvement or experience.
I often get a vibe that her actions are indirect; simply a means to sex, or to getting to be included in leadership roles, more than about building anything meaningful with the person she’s interacting with.
Even when given hints or direct comments about serious/traumatic things having happened in the past, she consistently brushes off either the hint or the event, itself.
She is cheerful and enthusiastic about being seriously harsh to someone (harsh enough, in fact, that it plays a role in said character committing suicide, which she never really seems to feel anything about for more than a second, if that).
Her sexual predator aggression toward a character who is currently visibly fragile and uncertain are a huge ew factor. (That could be viewed as an extreme opinion, but if it were a man in the role, many would [sadly] think it worse. Also, it felt a lot pushier BECAUSE of the pushiness being in spite of warnings that the person was uncomfortable. She started by maneuvering herself into Willow’s room and acting assuming that they could fool around. And she lied to get them alone, then made it known she was trying to get her drunk, said it was ‘sexy’ that Willow was pouting, aka uncomfortable, and dismissed anything important Willow tried to share.
Seriously reprehensible to me are her frequent comments to a person with a known history of addiction and current struggling... “I bet you’re cool when you’re doing it. What’s the worst that could happen. You should do it.”
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No, no, no. Hang on. I DON'T like Kennedy, but nothing she did qualifies as "sexual predator aggression." She was pushy, yes, but Willow was a grown ass woman. She chose to be with Kennedy (as disappointing as that was).

Your post reminds me too much of the current "everybody's a victim" climate. One of my personal sore points, to be honest. Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. 😉
 
DeepBlueJoy
DeepBlueJoy
As a survivor, I could not agree more. Not everyone is a victim & not everything is abuse. That mindset trivializes real predatory behaviors and makes it harder for cries for help to be heard over the braying!
Amber Bunny Slippers said:
No, no, no. Hang on. I DON'T like Kennedy, but nothing she did qualifies as "sexual predator aggression." She was pushy, yes, but Willow was a grown ass woman. She chose to be with Kennedy (as disappointing as that was).

Your post reminds me too much of the current "everybody's a victim" climate. One of my personal sore points, to be honest. Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. 😉
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That’s why I added the comment that it could be considered an extreme opinion. I admit I may even believe I’m wording it in an extreme way, partly just because I’m watching it this minute and the irritation is fresh in my mind. But I do think her behavior was ...well, to put it in cutesy terms, icky. I felt that Willow was in a vulnerable place for multiple reasons (Tara’s death and the magic stuff and only just finally getting back close with her friends), that was clear, and Kennedy fed on it. Which is predator-like. She didn’t feel that far off from Parker; the difference being that she at least admitted what she was doing and didn’t ghost after sex. (Parker being a whole other issue; I thought it was a time-wasting arc that made Buffy look uncharacteristically pathetic. I thought she should have reacted with embarrassment/sadness then disgust/anger, not that crap about still wanting it to work. Not that I’m judging anyone who’s ever been in such a situation. Just felt off in the show. But sidetracking, lol.) Though she was certainly quick to pull back as soon as she saw exactly what she’d been warned about. She still used emotional manipulation, lying, alcohol, etc. Her motives seem to be to move in for the kill and keep feeding off it, no matter the means, and without really bothering to get to know the other person. That’s the vibe I got.
I do agree that the everyone is a victim vibe can be over the top; not arguing that. And I’ll agree that I worded things strongly. It’s not like I think she was a candidate for arrest or something. I just think her behavior was gross and should have been called out. Except that the only one who really saw it fully was Willow, who was mentally in a place to be easily manipulated.
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(I’d like to edit my comment to at least say ‘verging on’ and add an admittance that I’m speaking dramatically from fresh annoyance, but it looks like my last comment is the only one I can edit. Not used to how it works yet. But the intent is there!)
 
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nightshade
nightshade
you can only edit a post for 15 minutes after posting
I really don't like Kennedy, but turning her relationship with Willow into an abusive one and Kennedy into something more than a pushy, thoughtless & willful girl trivializes real abuse.

As an abuse survivor, I resent that & and I think it gets in the way of helping those who are truly hurting and/or in actual danger.

Not every asshat is a dangerous abuser.

PS: A case can be made that she was abusive to her fellow potentials, though I doubt she could have foreseen the girl's suicide. I think *everyone* in that house was hellmouthed to some degree.

Normal people sometimes cross the line. Most of us have at sometime. That doesn't turn us into monsters.
 
Josh the Writer said:
I want to know what you all think about Kennedy. I was personally opposed to anyone coming after Tara in Willow's love life, but I felt like Kennedy cared a lot about Willow, despite their many differences. I thought that Kennedy and Willow were especially amazing and sweet together in "The Killer in Me", especially the ending where they kiss and Willow becomes Willow again. I still feel like Willow moved on too quickly, but I could be wrong. After all, Tara would have wanted Willow to be happy and move on. Anyway - what are your personal thoughts on Kennedy? Like, dislike, kinda/sorta, etc?
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personally do not know anything about her, stopped watching after Tara, death and Tara was a sweet girl but wish it was just a nightmare and Tara was still alive.
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white avenger said:
My major problem with Kennedy is that it just happened too quickly. Clearly, Willow was barely over the loss of Tara, and suddenly she's got a new girlfriend. I realize, things were rushed, what with that being the final Season, which Joss almost certainly knew from the start, whether anyone else did, or not, but, still, it just seemed to me that it somehow diminished Tara's memory.
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first never watched season 7 so do not care what happened but Willow, & Tara will always be the perfect, couple and for Willow to move on would hurt on matter who it was why did Tara, ever have to die it killed the show and it should have ended after season 6.
 
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Having finished my rewatch, it helped MILDLY that she backed off after being told off by Faith. I just still think she’s a massive jerk and a horrible fit for Willow. It also annoyed me when she acknowledged being a spoiled brat. If you KNOW you have a fault, you work at addressing it, not use it as an excuse.
While I’m certainly sympathetic to abuse survivors (I am familiar with it, as well, as are others I know), there are many levels and types of abuse, bullying, or generally hurtful behavior. Just because there is worse behavior out there by a long shot, doesn’t mean I ignore other/lesser forms. I wouldn’t call her an abuser outright, but she does exhibit some mildly abusive emotionally manipulative behavior on and off. The key is that it’s continuous, not an occasional accidental line crossing. That’s what pisses me off.
The suicide thing... She couldn’t have foreseen it, but her cheerful excitement in front of Chloe and others over having just treated Chloe that way was pretty gross.

(Nightshade, thanks for the explanation!)
 
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I can't help but feel that a lot of the issues people have with Kennedy being pushy is because of the "predatory lesbian stereotype" in media. If a lesbian is forthcoming with her intention and flirts out in the open, she's viewed as a predator. But if that was a straight girl she'd be seen as cute and flirty. I feel like deep down the root of the problem is homophobia and how people think lesbians should not be up front about their feelings. No wonder so many gay and bi girls have a hard time flirting, when we do it's seen as pushy and gross. In my opinion Kennedy didn't do anything wrong courting Willow the way she did, especially because she didn't know about Tara.
 
Taake
Taake
Interesting point!
Blaze said:
I can't help but feel that a lot of the issues people have with Kennedy being pushy is because of the "predatory lesbian stereotype" in media. If a lesbian is forthcoming with her intention and flirts out in the open, she's viewed as a predator. But if that was a straight girl she'd be seen as cute and flirty. I feel like deep down the root of the problem is homophobia and how people think lesbians should not be up front about their feelings. No wonder so many gay and bi girls have a hard time flirting, when we do it's seen as pushy and gross. In my opinion Kennedy didn't do anything wrong courting Willow the way she did, especially because she didn't know about Tara.
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I’m not sure I can agree with that. There’s a distinctive difference between flirty and pushy/inappropriate. She DID know about Tara, or at least knew that there had been someone, and that Willow was fragile. Willow told her that. And Kennedy could have known more about it if she really cared to, except that her response to anything serious she was told was always “I’m so sorry; I’m supportive, but anyway, moving on.” She just always acts sympathetic then brushes off what she’s been told or given hints about. Lying to get someone alone, admitting to trying to get them drunk, and further, dismissing her addiction issues to the point of encouraging using, and yelling at her every time she doesn’t jump to back up her every word... that’s not simple/harmless flirting or courtship.
If a guy treated me that way, I would not be okay with it. If Willow had seemed less uncomfortable, I might have been more okay with it. And I’ve seen flirty lesbians and thought it was adorable. This isn’t that.
Also, it seems like many of the people who hate Kennedy loved Willow with Tara, and Willow was plenty flirty with her. So I don’t think that’s quite so big a reason for the disgust.
 
Metria37KI said:
I’m not sure I can agree with that. There’s a distinctive difference between flirty and pushy/inappropriate. She DID know about Tara, or at least knew that there had been someone, and that Willow was fragile. Willow told her that. And Kennedy could have known more about it if she really cared to, except that her response to anything serious she was told was always “I’m so sorry; I’m supportive, but anyway, moving on.” She just always acts sympathetic then brushes off what she’s been told or given hints about. Lying to get someone alone, admitting to trying to get them drunk, and further, dismissing her addiction issues to the point of encouraging using, and yelling at her every time she doesn’t jump to back up her every word... that’s not simple/harmless flirting or courtship.
If a guy treated me that way, I would not be okay with it. If Willow had seemed less uncomfortable, I might have been more okay with it. And I’ve seen flirty lesbians and thought it was adorable. This isn’t that.
Also, it seems like many of the people who hate Kennedy loved Willow with Tara, and Willow was plenty flirty with her. So I don’t think that’s quite so big a reason for the disgust.
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I still maintain that the stereotype is influencing the view people have of Kennedy, even if that is not the case for everyone. I've dealt with internalized homophobia myself, and the narrative sounds very familiar to me. Especially because Kennedy is a character of colour and is more "butch" than Tara was. That is often the type of character which is stereotyped as the predatory lesbian. I feel like the flirting was portrayed as much more innocent and cute with Tara. Neither Tara nor Willow were very assertive or outspoken about their feelings.

Aside from that, I feel like we will be disagreeing on a lot of points here (not surprising I tend to disagree with loads of people when it comes to Kennedy). First off, Kennedy didn't know about Tara until "The killer in me" and she actually is compassionate towards Willow when it comes to Tara. I feel like people don't give Willow enough credit. Just because she had lost Tara does not mean that she was this fragile little thing that couldn't consent to a relationship. Willow decided to date Kennedy on her own terms, and actually initiated the relationship just as much as Kennedy did after their first date.

I actually think the "I'm supportive but moving on" attitude is a good thing for Willow. That's what Willow needed. Someone who'd be supportive of her emotions, that didn't dismiss that those emotions were there, but that also re-enforced that Willow was still Willow and could still keep living beyond what had happened in season 6. Kennedy didn't get the whole magic thing, yet she's the one that Willow chose to be with for the most important spell in her life. Willow clearly viewed Kennedy as her anchor and someone who would help her when and if needed.

Could Kennedy have gone a better way to score a date with Willow? Yes, absolutely, but given the circumstances I don't really blame Kennedy. She saw a window of opportunity and took it, and Willow was clearly not very mad about it. If she wanted nothing to do with Kennedy she could have up and left. And before anyone tries to say that she tried but Kennedy forced her to stay, Kennedy literally only asked her to stay for one drink, it took very little convincing for Willow to agree. And come on, what kind of adult gets drunk off of one drink, it was clearly never Kennedy's intention to get Willow wasted (and would she really joke about it if that was her intent). Kennedy might not understand the addiction to magic thing, but then again neither did the writers since they completely changed their story from magic=drugs to magic is a part of Willow now. I think Kennedy did well without having an understanding for it like the others did. Also, I'm fairly sure Kennedy never screamed at Willow.
 
For those (unlike me) who think season 7 is not a major retcon or retooling of the characters, I'd like to point out that Willow has always been able to stand up for herself. It's true she's prone to guilt and insecurity, but this does not paralyze her. Even in season 1, she plays Hyena Xander, and later breaks up with Robo-Moloch (who has powers to mesmerize the mind in addition to being intimidating) while bashing him with a fire extinguisher. And she becomes even more assertive (and downright cocky at times, especially with her hubris in season 6) as time goes on. This is not someone who is going to be pushed around by Kennedy, however conflicted she may feel about it (probably more due to guilt than anything).

I say that as someone who doesn't really care one way or another about Kennedy, or even season 7 anymore.
 
Blaze
Blaze
Exactly. Like Kennedy or not, Willow is definitely not a push over or a victim here
Blaze said:
Also, I'm fairly sure Kennedy never screamed at Willow.
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She did. During the mutiny when Willow stood up to say something, Kennedy screamed "Why are you always standing up for her?"

Kennedy's pursuit of Willow was a power play. She didn't care that Willow was still grieving Tara and feeling anxious about using magic, all she cared about was getting what she wanted which was a position amongst the scoobies. As soon as she started dating Willow, she was in the Scooby meetings. She skived off going to the desert with the other potentials in order to trick Willow into a date, then once she was dating Willow, she publically humiliated Chloe (all because she turned the wrong way) then gloated about it to Wood. When the first can basically say "you helped cause this" in regards to Chloe's suicide WITHOUT lying, you know there's a problem. Kennedy expects Willow to side with her over Buffy, despite the 7 year friendship between Buffy and Willow, then jumps down Willow's throat if she disagrees or is about to. Kennedy initiates the mutiny as part of a power play because she admits to Faith that she thought with Faith in charge she would get a bigger say which Buffy wasn't letting her have, hence her brown nosing of Faith pre-mutiny.

Nobody has an issue with Kennedy being a lesbian, both Tara and Willow are lesbians and are loved by the fans. What people dislike about Kennedy is her self-entitled attitude and the fact that everything is just handed to her on a plate. Both Tara and Anya (and Spike) had to earn their place amongst the scoobies despite dating Scooby members. They weren't automatically given access to Scooby meetings yet Kennedy is there the minute she and Willow are officially "dating".

Viewing Killow as a power play on Kennedy's part makes more sense than it being a supposedly genuine relationship.
 
I think Joss just intended her to be a rebound girl for Willow. you didn't feel the fire and passion she had with Tara
 
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K
katmobile
Whether Joss intended or not and he probably didn't as she's a creator's pet not even the other writers liked much Kennedy is a rebound girl. Then again in some ways she was good for Willow and a lot of my issues with her are visiting a vis Buffy.
buffyfan86 said:
I think Joss just intended her to be a rebound girl for Willow. you didn't feel the fire and passion she had with Tara
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And yet she was the one Willow ended the series with. If Joss wanted her to be just a rebound then Willow should've dumped her. Killow was just a power play for Kennedy, Willow may have thought there was something there (why else would she tolerate Kennedy?), but of Kennedy had a shot at the bigger players of Buffy or Faith then she would've taken it. Kennedy was pissy at Buffy because she wasn't letting her have the power, hence why Kennedy initiated the mutiny that resulted in Buffy being kicked out of her own house.
 
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