Response incoming!
OK, let's provide the full quote:
Spike: I know that I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man.
There's also this exchange where he agrees with Xander:
Xander Harris: Yes, you are a monster. Vampires are monsters. They make monster movies about them.
Spike: Well, yeah, you got me there.
Sorry, already point one doesn't fly.
Spike returned after attempting to violently rape Buffy, guilt her about his soul, not apologise to her? Her 'best friend'? I'm sorry, that's hilarious.
I think you missed the line where I said Spike has done nothing but good
after getting a soul.
It can be argued he did that because of Buffy. He 'cares' for Dawn via extension of Buffy. The proof of this comes in s6, when Buffy returns. Dawn is but a distant memory to Spike from that point on, which also continues in s7.
Dawn made it clear she didn't want to have a relationship with Spike anymore after what he tried to to Buffy, and Spike respected that. If Spike didn't care about Dawn why would he maintain a relationship with her after Buffy died? Yeah you could say he promised Buffy he's protect her, but Buffy was dead so it wasn't like she'd know either way..
You're kind of repeating on your second point about 'abandoning'. Buffy isn't alone, she's got her father figure in Giles and her friends. Angel realises he can't give Buffy the life she needs. You think it was easy for him to walk away from the woman he loves??
If Angel truly knew he couldn't give Buffy what she needed (and of course he knew that), he would have never gotten involved with her romantically
in the first place, especially since his whole excuse was to "help" her. But Angel is selfish, so he did it anyways.
Once Spike and Buffy start their sexual 'relationship', notice Spike's good deeds evaporate, because he got what he wanted; to get into Buffy's pants. He doesn't patrol, he doesn't look after Dawn. His mission was getting Buffy.
This is completely false. Had Buffy asked him for any help, he would have willingly done anything.
Spike DIRECTLY contributed to Buffy being at her worst. He doesn't understand her. In and out? Yeah, not a chance.
Not sure what to even say here? I've heard a lot of arguments against Spuffy, but honestly I think I've ever heard someone say he didn't understand her. Sure, Spike is a lot of things, but there is no argument he knows Buffy very well. Perhaps we have a different definition of what it means to "understand" someone? For me, it means knowing someone very well.
On what basis? Your 'belief' has no evidence. She's talking to Spike, Angel has nothing to do with this discussion. You are completely reaching here in order to try and cut down Angel. Spike's line about great love being 'wild and passionate' is in reference to them.
Of course, he's completely delusional thinking that Buffy might be in love with him. He has no clue and is merely projecting. At this point he is desperate, Buffy has dumped and rejected him.
Actually, I think he's referring to him and Dru with this line, but whatever.
Interesting when Angel comes back in s7 that she trusts him enough to take the necklace, trusts him enough to set up a second front. So much distrust that she kisses him. So much distrust that she tells him she sees no future with Spike, but one with him.
You can love someone and not trust them. Buffy says this to him herself.
Also, Buffy uses Spike to help protect Dawn and Joyce because who else will/can? He's the only one aside from Buffy with super-strength, who might stand a chance. Who else will do it? Xander? She won't risk her friends or Giles, meaning she won't really care if Spike is dusted.
Nah, I'm not buying this. If she genuinely thought Spike was a threat to Dawn, she would not have taken her over there. Period.
She also doesn't trust Spike. From Seeing Red:
"I could never trust you enough for it to be love."
The chip removal was a completely stupid decision that made no sense. Much like Buffy leaving him in a house full of vulnerable people when he was the control of The First.
I agree it was stupid, but it's just another example of Spike's Get Out Of Jail Free Card, because Buffy
loves him so he gets special treatment.
Spike knows jack. Let's be honest, Buffy is only alive and has lasted this long because she has help ("A slayer with friends. That wasn't in the brochure"). Other Slayers didn't and met a terrible fate.
Sure, you're forgetting that Spike is the truth sayer, and very perceptive.
That doesn't reflect positively on them. It's showing how Spike isn't part of her life and how little she cares for him that he can be around. They're not close, he's not in the inner Scoobie circle.
He's not because he doesn't play well with others, we know this
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This is why she confessed that she had been in heaven. Why she tells Tara about Spike. They're not in the inner circle and close to Buffy as the others.
"Why are you always around when I'm miserable"
And he says because that's when she's alone...
This is irrelevant to me and to others who don't follow the comics.
It's still canon though, even if you have not read it, or wish it wasn't.
In IWRY - she was at her happiest with Angel and had a perfect day with him. Obviously the ending is a sad one, but the during and the 24 hours they have, is pure bliss. There's no other way to look at it. To only look at the ending and ignore the rest...
I have never claimed that Buffy doesn't love Angel. Not sure where you got that...
In s6, Buffy isn't herself. Glossing over that she somehow chose to have sex with him just as a fun escape and to let off some steam is ignoring all the trauma Buffy has with her PTSD and depression.
Nope, not what I said. Of course Buffy wasn't herself. Buffy used spike for sex to make herself feel better, but obviously it made her worse, thus why she ended it. Having sex with Spike was not an escape, it was a distraction.
She even says it:
"This isn't me. It can't be me." She also questions why she let's Spike 'do all those things to her'. She doesn't like it.
Part of growing up is realizing that sometimes we aren't who we say we are, or realizing that we want things we think we shouldn't. That's what's going on here. Would Buffy have had sex with Spike had she not been depressed? Who knows. But in the canon you choose to ignore, she gets back with him and she's certainly not depressed then so.
Sorry, where are you seeing this imaginary intimacy? And friendship? They're together training potentials. And the other times is Buffy running to Spike every time he has a boo boo.
What's so fascinating about this show, and especially this relationship, is how differently fans see things. I'd ask the same question to you: how do you NOT see it?
They don't date, they don't bond, they don't hang out separately, they don't laugh together.
To say she never had any intimacy with Angel is amusing.
I didn't say that she didn't have intimacy with Angel. She lost her virginity to the man. Again, this is just my opinion she's better off with Spike than Angel.
Don't worry though, Spike is experienced in stalking. See s5 and s6 of BTVS.
Sure, but at least he wasn't stalking a 15 year old...
No one is obviously denying the issue of the curse and what can happen. But that doesn't mean that because Buffy can have sex with Spike that he's somehow automatically better. Nor does it mean that Angel and Buffy didn't share a deep love, despite lacking physical intimacy.
Fair enough friend. Appreciate the discourse
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