Ten Reasons Why Buffy Is Better Off With Spike Than She Is With Angel

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I get asked a lot why I think Buffy is better off with Spike than with Angel, and to explain why.
So I thought I'd share this old post from my livejournal, which explains why.

Tell me your thoughts. Do you agree, disagree?

-

1. One sees himself as a man, and other one as a monster.

Angel: I walk like a man but I’m not one.

Spike: But you treat me like a man...

Angel is a unreliable character, and his choices are often questionable. He is the ultimate tragic hero, doomed to fail repeatably as result of his fatal flaw; his gullibility. Angel will forever be fighting that who resides within him; Angelus, ready to emerge the second Angel puts his guard down.

Spike, on the other hand, has done nothing but good since he’s gotten his soul (and before that). Instead of turning against Buffy as Angel has, Spike has returned to reclaim his rightful place as her biggest supporter, best friend, and right-hand man.

2. Angel’s love for Buffy was a selfish love, while Spike’s was selfless.

Spike:...not-so-pleasant Buffy -- anything happened to Dawn, it'd destroy her. Couldn't live, her being that much pain. I'd let Glory kill me first.
-Intervention

Angel: [To Buffy] I want to take comfort in you and I know it'll cost me my soul and a part of me doesn't care..

Spike: [to Buffy] I wanted to give you what you deserve.
-Beneath You

Angel left Buffy to fight her battle alone. Spike stood by her side, like he said he would, until the world crumbled around him, and he turned to ashes.

3. Spike stood by Buffy‘s side. Angel left her.

True, both vampires, due to their love for Buffy, were inspired to be better for her. The difference here is that Angel, after making such a big deal about helping her, abandoned her because he was too weak to resist the temptation of being around her.

Spike, on the other hand, kept his promise to protect Dawn “until the end of the world”, even after Buffy was gone. Spike stayed in Sunnydale to fight her war. He made his mission hers. He sacrificed himself to win her war. Buffy can count on Spike to stick it out even when it gets rough.

4. Spike and Buffy are friends. Angel and her never were and never will be.

Buffy shares a connection with Spike that rivals that of anyone in her life. He understands her. He’s seen the best and the worst of her and still understands who she is. They started as enemies, fell into an uneasy alliance, developed into lovers, and settled as friends. They’ve come full-circle. They know each other in and out. They can sit in silence together.

Buffy not only distrusts Angel, but she has no faith in him. There is love, yes, but is there anyone more than that? One wonders.

Spike: Great love is wild and passionate and dangerous. It burns and consumes.
Buffy: Until there's nothing left. Love like that doesn't last.

It’s my belief she’s referring to Angel here. When there is no base of friendship to support the hard times, love - even “true” love - doesn’t stand a chance.

Buffy: [To Angel] I'm not coming back. We're not friends. We never were.
-Lovers Walk

Spike: You'll be in love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends.

5. Buffy trusts Spike. She never trusted Angel. Still doesn‘t.

Buffy: [to Angel]: I love you but I don’t trust you.

Buffy [to Spike]: I’m counting on you to protect her.

Buffy trusted Spike to watch over her sister and her recovering mother, even when he didn’t have a soul. Buffy removed the chip from Spike’s head even when he was killing people under the influence of The First Evil.

6. Spike and Buffy understand each other. Bangel never did.

Spike: Death is on your heels, baby. And sooner or later, it's gonna catch you. And part of you wants it. Not only to stop the fear and uncertainty, but because you're just a little bit in love with it.
-Fool For Love

Spike understand that it's the darkness inside of Buffy that makes her the best.

Buffy: It's okay, I can be alone with you here.
-Afterlife

Buffy: You’re my dark place, Spike.
-Last Gleaming Part Two

7. Buffy can never have Angel in the way she wants. Spike? She can.

In “Innocence”, after Buffy gave her virginity to Angel, he lost his soul, reverted to Angelus and caused her and her loved ones immeasurable pain. The second time they slept together, in “I Will Remember You”, there were more tears and heartbreak. Finally, in the end, their lovemaking caused the destruction of the universe and the birth of a new one.

Angel: How can... There's gotta be some way we can still see each other.
Buffy: There is: Tell me that you don't love me.
-Lovers Walk

Need I say more?

With Spike, even at her worst, Buffy could be herself. Let it all hang out. All the baggage and the fear and the anger. Their lovemaking did not cause the apocalypse. She could have Spike physically without worrying about the world ending. In fact, being with him as a an escape from her overbearing duties as the Slayer - not a reminder of the damage the act could do.

Later, after she’d terminated their sexual relationship, and her and Spike had reached a place of real intimacy and genuine affection, she could achieve a kind of intimacy she never could with Angel; real, true friendship based on mutual trust, admiration, and affection.

8. Buffy believes in Spike. She doesn’t believe in Angel.

9. Spike respects Buffy. Angel doesn’t.

Spike: You’re a hell of a woman. You’re the one, Buffy.
-Touched

Spike [in reference to Buffy] My hero.
-Last Gleaming Part Two

Spike: You've been spying on her?!
Angel: I just wanted to make sure she was all right.
Spike: Sending your lackeys to do your stalking for you!
- The Girl in Question

10. When Buffy and Angel get together, irresponsibility reigns, and people die.

Cordelia: [about Buffy and Angel] They get groiny with one another, the world as we know it falls apart.
-I Will Remember You

And, well, let’s face it, we know it’s true.

Spike [to Buffy]: You ascended. You opened a gateway to a new reality - scratch that, you created a new reality with your nudey shenanigans…and then you abandoned it.
-Last Gleaming Part One

 

[SavvyScoobie]

1. One sees himself as a man, and other one as a monster.

Angel: I walk like a man but I’m not one.

Spike: But you treat me like a man...

Angel is a unreliable character, and his choices are often questionable. He is the ultimate tragic hero, doomed to fail repeatably as result of his fatal flaw; his gullibility. Angel will forever be fighting that who resides within him; Angelus, ready to emerge the second Angel puts his guard down.

Spike, on the other hand, has done nothing but good since he’s gotten his soul (and before that). Instead of turning against Buffy as Angel has, Spike has returned to reclaim his rightful place as her biggest supporter, best friend, and right-hand man.

This could just be Spike being delusional. Someone needs to stop locking him under schools 🥲

2. Angel’s love for Buffy was a selfish love, while Spike’s was selfless.

Spike:...not-so-pleasant Buffy -- anything happened to Dawn, it'd destroy her. Couldn't live, her being that much pain. I'd let Glory kill me first.
-Intervention

Angel: [To Buffy] I want to take comfort in you and I know it'll cost me my soul and a part of me doesn't care..

Spike: [to Buffy] I wanted to give you what you deserve.
-Beneath You

Angel left Buffy to fight her battle alone. Spike stood by her side, like he said he would, until the world crumbled around him, and he turned to ashes.

Lol Spike was very selfish at times. Angel devoted the entire rest of life to being good. Spike got a character arc, but I'd argue that Angel did more for the innocents. Both aren't perfect but Spike's love was very selfish. He was an absolute creep in s5 and s6. That wasn't considerate of Buffy at all; it was selfish.

4. Spike and Buffy are friends. Angel and her never were and never will be.

Do have to say that this is true! I can't see Angel and Buffy being friends. But that doesn't mean things between Spike and Buffy weren't tense after returning to being 'just friends'.

Buffy trusted Spike to watch over her sister and her recovering mother, even when he didn’t have a soul. Buffy removed the chip from Spike’s head even when he was killing people under the influence of The First Evil.

Sometimes this happened because Buffy had no choice. It could also be because Buffy is a lover girl at heart. She still gave Angel many chances and refused to kill him even when he was soulless. I think it's just a characteristic of Buffy; that she's very lenient and understanding with the people she loves.

With Spike, even at her worst, Buffy could be herself. Let it all hang out. All the baggage and the fear and the anger. Their lovemaking did not cause the apocalypse. She could have Spike physically without worrying about the world ending. In fact, being with him as a an escape from her overbearing duties as the Slayer - not a reminder of the damage the act could do.

Agree with this. At times it felt like Angel never really understood Buffy. There'd be scenes where she'd be venting to him, and he wouldn't take it seriously. He was trying so hard to act cool. This could also be because Buffy would tell him about high school stuff and teen girl issues, buuutttt I still think Spike would've understood more. Found it so weird that Buffy was talking about growing up and teenagehood to this grown ass man. Her daddy issues didn't help either. It always made me wonder, what do they actually talk about?

 

[hoponlilmama]

Response incoming!

1. One sees himself as a man, and other one as a monster.

Angel: I walk like a man but I’m not one.

Spike: But you treat me like a man...

OK, let's provide the full quote:
Spike: I know that I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man.

There's also this exchange where he agrees with Xander:
Xander Harris: Yes, you are a monster. Vampires are monsters. They make monster movies about them.
Spike: Well, yeah, you got me there.

Sorry, already point one doesn't fly.

Angel is a unreliable character, and his choices are often questionable. He is the ultimate tragic hero, doomed to fail repeatably as result of his fatal flaw; his gullibility. Angel will forever be fighting that who resides within him; Angelus, ready to emerge the second Angel puts his guard down.

Spike, on the other hand, has done nothing but good since he’s gotten his soul (and before that). Instead of turning against Buffy as Angel has, Spike has returned to reclaim his rightful place as her biggest supporter, best friend, and right-hand man.

So Angel left for Buffy to blossom, grow and be able to live a full life, and he 'turned against her?'

Spike returned after attempting to violently rape Buffy, guilt her about his soul, not apologise to her? Her 'best friend'? I'm sorry, that's hilarious.

Rightful place? 🤣

2. Angel’s love for Buffy was a selfish love, while Spike’s was selfless.

Spike:...not-so-pleasant Buffy -- anything happened to Dawn, it'd destroy her. Couldn't live, her being that much pain. I'd let Glory kill me first.
-Intervention

It can be argued he did that because of Buffy. He 'cares' for Dawn via extension of Buffy. The proof of this comes in s6, when Buffy returns. Dawn is but a distant memory to Spike from that point on, which also continues in s7.

Angel: [To Buffy] I want to take comfort in you and I know it'll cost me my soul and a part of me doesn't care..

This is also said because the First was screwing with his head and says it in his moment of weakness.

Spike: [to Buffy] I wanted to give you what you deserve.
-Beneath You

Sure, and repeatedly blaming her for his attempted rape and calling her a b**ch multiple times. It's so romantic and selfless! He got the soul to be like Angel - the man Buffy loves AND continues to love. He also got it after she firmly shut the door on him in SR.

Now, if Spike had gone and gotten a soul earlier in s6, you might have a point.

3. Spike stood by Buffy‘s side. Angel left her.

True, both vampires, due to their love for Buffy, were inspired to be better for her. The difference here is that Angel, after making such a big deal about helping her, abandoned her because he was too weak to resist the temptation of being around her.

You're kind of repeating on your second point about 'abandoning'. Buffy isn't alone, she's got her father figure in Giles and her friends. Angel realises he can't give Buffy the life she needs. You think it was easy for him to walk away from the woman he loves??

Spike, on the other hand, kept his promise to protect Dawn “until the end of the world”, even after Buffy was gone. Spike stayed in Sunnydale to fight her war. He made his mission hers. He sacrificed himself to win her war. Buffy can count on Spike to stick it out even when it gets rough.

Once Spike and Buffy start their sexual 'relationship', notice Spike's good deeds evaporate, because he got what he wanted; to get into Buffy's pants. He doesn't patrol, he doesn't look after Dawn. His mission was getting Buffy.

4. Spike and Buffy are friends. Angel and her never were and never will be.

Buffy shares a connection with Spike that rivals that of anyone in her life. He understands her. He’s seen the best and the worst of her and still understands who she is. They started as enemies, fell into an uneasy alliance, developed into lovers, and settled as friends. They’ve come full-circle. They know each other in and out. They can sit in silence together.

Spike DIRECTLY contributed to Buffy being at her worst. He doesn't understand her. In and out? Yeah, not a chance.

Spike: Great love is wild and passionate and dangerous. It burns and consumes.
Buffy: Until there's nothing left. Love like that doesn't last.

It’s my belief she’s referring to Angel here. When there is no base of friendship to support the hard times, love - even “true” love - doesn’t stand a chance.

On what basis? Your 'belief' has no evidence. She's talking to Spike, Angel has nothing to do with this discussion. You are completely reaching here in order to try and cut down Angel. Spike's line about great love being 'wild and passionate' is in reference to them.

Of course, he's completely delusional thinking that Buffy might be in love with him. He has no clue and is merely projecting. At this point he is desperate, Buffy has dumped and rejected him.

5. Buffy trusts Spike. She never trusted Angel. Still doesn‘t.

Buffy: [to Angel]: I love you but I don’t trust you.

Buffy [to Spike]: I’m counting on you to protect her.

Buffy trusted Spike to watch over her sister and her recovering mother, even when he didn’t have a soul. Buffy removed the chip from Spike’s head even when he was killing people under the influence of The First Evil.

Interesting when Angel comes back in s7 that she trusts him enough to take the necklace, trusts him enough to set up a second front. So much distrust that she kisses him. So much distrust that she tells him she sees no future with Spike, but one with him.

Also, Buffy uses Spike to help protect Dawn and Joyce because who else will/can? He's the only one aside from Buffy with super-strength, who might stand a chance. Who else will do it? Xander? She won't risk her friends or Giles, meaning she won't really care if Spike is dusted.

She also doesn't trust Spike. From Seeing Red:
"I could never trust you enough for it to be love."

The chip removal was a completely stupid decision that made no sense. Much like Buffy leaving him in a house full of vulnerable people when he was the control of The First.

6. Spike and Buffy understand each other. Bangel never did.

Spike: Death is on your heels, baby. And sooner or later, it's gonna catch you. And part of you wants it. Not only to stop the fear and uncertainty, but because you're just a little bit in love with it.
-Fool For Love

Spike understand that it's the darkness inside of Buffy that makes her the best.

Spike knows jack. Let's be honest, Buffy is only alive and has lasted this long because she has help ("A slayer with friends. That wasn't in the brochure"). Other Slayers didn't and met a terrible fate.

This is the guy who tells Robin Wood that Nikki "knew what she was signing up for" - Slayers don't 'sign up'. And Spike of all people should know this.

Buffy: It's okay, I can be alone with you here.
-Afterlife

That doesn't reflect positively on them. It's showing how Spike isn't part of her life and how little she cares for him that he can be around. They're not close, he's not in the inner Scoobie circle. This is why she confessed that she had been in heaven. Why she tells Tara about Spike. They're not in the inner circle and close to Buffy as the others.

"Why are you always around when I'm miserable"

Buffy: You’re my dark place, Spike.
-Last Gleaming Part Two

This is irrelevant to me and to others who don't follow the comics.

7. Buffy can never have Angel in the way she wants. Spike? She can.

In “Innocence”, after Buffy gave her virginity to Angel, he lost his soul, reverted to Angelus and caused her and her loved ones immeasurable pain. The second time they slept together, in “I Will Remember You”, there were more tears and heartbreak. Finally, in the end, their lovemaking caused the destruction of the universe and the birth of a new one.

In IWRY - she was at her happiest with Angel and had a perfect day with him. Obviously the ending is a sad one, but the during and the 24 hours they have, is pure bliss. There's no other way to look at it. To only look at the ending and ignore the rest...

With Spike, even at her worst, Buffy could be herself. Let it all hang out. All the baggage and the fear and the anger. Their lovemaking did not cause the apocalypse. She could have Spike physically without worrying about the world ending. In fact, being with him as a an escape from her overbearing duties as the Slayer - not a reminder of the damage the act could do.

In s6, Buffy isn't herself. Glossing over that she somehow chose to have sex with him just as a fun escape and to let off some steam is ignoring all the trauma Buffy has with her PTSD and depression.

She even says it:
"This isn't me. It can't be me." She also questions why she let's Spike 'do all those things to her'. She doesn't like it.

She cries over the fact she's having sex with Spike, thinks she came back wrong (because Spike told her this when she was already vulnerable), she tells us she's disgusted with herself, being with Spike is killing her....and she's 'being herself?'

Later, after she’d terminated their sexual relationship, and her and Spike had reached a place of real intimacy and genuine affection, she could achieve a kind of intimacy she never could with Angel; real, true friendship based on mutual trust, admiration, and affection.

Sorry, where are you seeing this imaginary intimacy? And friendship? They're together training potentials. And the other times is Buffy running to Spike every time he has a boo boo.

They don't date, they don't bond, they don't hang out separately, they don't laugh together.

To say she never had any intimacy with Angel is amusing.

8. Buffy believes in Spike. She doesn’t believe in Angel.

Again, you're kinda rehashing points to try and get your point across.

But if you look at s3 and Amends, she believes in him to fight back and live. She doesn't have to say the words directly, but this is what the scene is telling us. It obviously touches on other themes and issues, but Buffy also wouldn't be there if she didn't believe in Angel.

9. Spike respects Buffy. Angel doesn’t.

Spike: You’re a hell of a woman. You’re the one, Buffy.
-Touched

Riley also says it and says it first. So maybe he deserves her more if we're going by your argument? 😉

Spike [in reference to Buffy] My hero.
-Last Gleaming Part Two

Again, I ignore comic references, they mean nothing to me.

Spike: You've been spying on her?!
Angel: I just wanted to make sure she was all right.
Spike: Sending your lackeys to do your stalking for you!
- The Girl in Question

Erm....they both were obsessed with trying to find her in The Girl in Question. No one comes off better than the other here. They're both idiots. 🤣

Don't worry though, Spike is experienced in stalking. See s5 and s6 of BTVS.

10. When Buffy and Angel get together, irresponsibility reigns, and people die.

Cordelia: [about Buffy and Angel] They get groiny with one another, the world as we know it falls apart.
-I Will Remember You

And, well, let’s face it, we know it’s true.

Spike [to Buffy]: You ascended. You opened a gateway to a new reality - scratch that, you created a new reality with your nudey shenanigans…and then you abandoned it.
-Last Gleaming Part One

Do you ever wonder what was happened when Buffy was busy having sex with Spike and shirking her responsibilities as the Slayer? Obviously not on a catastrophic world-altering level, but people would be falling to the hands of vampires.

No one is obviously denying the issue of the curse and what can happen. But that doesn't mean that because Buffy can have sex with Spike that he's somehow automatically better. Nor does it mean that Angel and Buffy didn't share a deep love, despite lacking physical intimacy.

 

[silvermoon]

'Do you ever wonder what was happened when Buffy was busy having sex with Spike and shirking her responsibilities as the Slayer? Obviously not on a catastrophic world-altering level, but people would be falling to the hands of vampires.'

This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Buffy spent a lot of time doing other stuff when she wasn't fighting b.c. she had a life. She couldn't be patrolling 24-7. She and Spike weren't have a 24-7 shag-a-thon, by any means.