Spike - why Buffy changed her attitude in S7

[EarthLogic]

Interesting... you made me realize that this is sort if a parallel to s2 when she feels responsible/guilty for Angel losing his soul. I don't even know where I'm trying to go with this lol.

There's a definite parallel with S2. I think it would be un-Buffylike for her to not extend the same faith in a souled Spike as she did with Angel and Faith and I think she was aware that it would be hypocritical. The difference is in how she acts. Like people have already said, she wasn't that reckless in S2 despite being absolutely sure of her love for Angel. So here, when her feelings for Spike are so conflicted and he's close to butterfly-net stage how the hell can she justify keeping him in her house? I think another crucial difference is that in S2, Giles and her friends were key to helping her through her feelings of guilt. IOHEFY was all about Buffy slowly coming to terms with the fact that it wasn't her fault. It's slightly different in S7 as she is partially responsible for using Spike as an outlet, however (though I can't remember the season in detail) I don't recall anyone ever reassuring Buffy that she need not blame herself so much, that Spike was using her too. (Again I'm working from memory + a cba to sift through the scripts so maybe someone can fact-check this for me)

I have to disagree with this part. She literally only went to look for him because Dawn, who was unaware of what he did, was insisting on staying with him. She wasn't disappointed, she was more surprised that he just took off. The idea that she was so was in love with her attempted rapist that she was "disappointed " he left... Is actually kind of gross and disturbing. I'm not gonna argue whether she loved him or not in season 6, although personally I don't think she did.

The next season you can see she has flashbacks and PTSD when she sees him again.

Agreed that Buffy had ptsd and flashbacks when she's with Spike again. But not when she first sees him in the basement, at that moment she stares at him and allows him to stroke her face (or go to stroke her).

When Clem tells Buffy that Spike has left town it's clear that Buffy has mixed feelings about it. I am not disagreeing that to feel disappointed that your attempted rapist has left isn't gross or disturbing . . but I do think that's what she's feeling. Love isn't rational.

I'm quoting myself here, but Spike was the only one she could bear to be around, the only one she was truthful with and he was the only one who made her feel anything. I don't think it's possible for Buffy not to love Spike. Why wouldn't you love the only thing in this world you can stand to be around?

When she breaks up with him, she doesn't say 'I don't love you', but 'I can't love you', which I think means she can't allow herself to love him. Her whole life as the Slayer has been built around the notion that not having a soul makes you evil and loving Spike as he is, turns her whole world view upside down.

When Clem tells Buffy that Spike has left town it's clear that Buffy has mixed feelings about it. I am not disagreeing that to feel disappointed that your attempted rapist has left isn't gross or disturbing . . but I do think that's what she's feeling, and those are feelings she has to come to accept about herself. She's not the worlds definition of 'normal', but who the hell is. She loved Angel after he came back from hell, even though he's killed Jenny and tortured Giles . . . Buffy is loving and forgiving by nature, so I think this is totally in character for her.

In the basement I think she allows him to touch her face because she's not sure if he's a ghost/apparition or not: 'are you...real?'. She's too shocked to move. I don't think it has much to do with love-type feelings.

As for 'Villains', the shooting script does actually support the 'mixed feelings' interpretation (though we can't know if these stage directions were the final draft, obvs) :

BUFFY
...We we were looking for Spike, actually.

CLEM
(thrown)
He... didn't tell you?

BUFFY
Tell me what?

CLEM
He left. Town.

Buffy takes this in, pained despite herself.

BUFFY
Oh.

....

BUFFY
Thank you.

Clem smiles - nods. Buffy heads for the door. Pauses briefly - feeling Spike's absence...

BUFFY (cont'd)
Did he say when he was coming back?

CLEM
Spike? No. Only that he could be
gone a while.

It's still very ambiguous. It's more than surprise, but definitely less than love (I really don't see how we can see 'love' in this in any sense). As for 'disappointed', there's an an argument to be made there but if it's true I find it rather...icky on the part of the writers. I'd have to go back and see how Sarah played it but just based on the script I'd lean towards 'conflicted'. He's been a constant, if mainly unwanted, presence in her life for years now that, when you throw in the connection they had, his now lack of presence is palpable. It's also possible that 'pained despite herself' could be indicative of her guilt/abandonment issues again.

Why wouldn't you love the only thing in this world you can stand to be around?

How does simply being able to stand being around someone equate to love? That's a bit of a leap, no?

 

[Antho]

I have mixed feelings about Spuffy in season 7 and season 7 in general. The more I think about it the more I'm disturbed. However, I do think that the way Buffy reacted and manages the return of Angel, after all the phase Angelus, was more realistic and in character that the way she acted toward Spike after all the season 6.

 

[Mylie]

I have mixed feelings about Spuffy in season 7 and season 7 in general. The more I think about it the more I'm disturbed. However, I do think that the way Buffy reacted and manages the return of Angel, after all the phase Angelus, was more realistic and in character that the way she acted toward Spike after all the season 6.

I feel the same and maybe it's my bias talking but I don't think so. For me it all comes down to the fact that she was able to forgive Angel because for her it wasn't the same person (even Xander of all people told her he's not the same person she fell in love with) so I'm left very confused over how Spuffy is handled in season 7, mostly from Buffy's end. If she can forgive him because he's not the same person than that means this is a brand new relationship with someone completely different. So the "still in love with Spike" or relying so much on him when she doesn't in fact have any attachment/history with this Spike makes very little sense to me. Going back to Angel after Angelus made sense because she already knew and loved Angel.

I just can't make sense of it...

 

[Priceless]

How does simply being able to stand being around someone equate to love? That's a bit of a leap, no?

Buffy would say she loved Dawn, Willow and Xander yet being around them causes her pain. I don't think it's too much of a leap to think that love grows when you are around someone, especially if that someone is the only person you can be around and be yourself with. They are having sex, she tells him things she can't tell anyone else, she takes her frustrations out on him an she resents the fact that he makes her 'feel'; it's complicated, but I still think it's love.

 

[Antho]

I feel the same and maybe it's my bias talking but I don't think so. For me it all comes down to the fact that she was able to forgive Angel because for her it wasn't the same person (even Xander of all people told her he's not the same person she fell in love with) so I'm left very confused over how Spuffy is handled in season 7, mostly from Buffy's end. If she can forgive him because he's not the same person than that means this is a brand new relationship with someone completely different. So the "still in love with Spike" or relying so much on him when she doesn't in fact have any attachment/history with this Spike makes very little sense to me. Going back to Angel after Angelus made sense because she already knew and loved Angel.

I just can't make sense of it...

I see your point and a part of me is agree with you. But personally the problems I have are more relate to Buffy's reaction than her relationship with Spike. I can't stop myself to compare her reactions between Angel and Spike. When Angel come back in season 3, first she is shocked, she chained him, then after being sure he was no longer a threat, she hided him from her friends.. Briefly, I find that one felt the trauma she experienced, she was cautious with him and it took her a moment before to trust him again. It was realistic for me. But with Spike, she lets him doing what he wants even knowing he is triggered and could kill someone at any time. There is no real conclusion to the AR, we don't see Buffy being traumatized by that. She said to Wood that's she would allowed Spike to kill him. She isn't very cautious, maybe someone would say she proves she has confidence in Spike, but this isn't a question of confidence, this is unconsciousness !

 

[EarthLogic]

Buffy would say she loved Dawn, Willow and Xander yet being around them causes her pain. I don't think it's too much of a leap to think that love grows when you are around someone, especially if that someone is the only person you can be around and be yourself with. They are having sex, she tells him things she can't tell anyone else, she takes her frustrations out on him an she resents the fact that he makes her 'feel'; it's complicated, but I still think it's love.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. She loves them therefore they cause her pain? So Spike causes her pain therefore she loves him? 😕

With Dawn, Willow and Xander it's her willingness to protect them (and the occasions when they're horrible to her) that causes her anguish over the course of the show. In S6 she's isolated from them, so yes being around them is painful when she feels she can't open up to them.

With Spike it's an entirely different relationship. She's using him like a drug. It's a way to feel something, anything besides the numbness and she knows it's destroying her. It's basically a form of self-harm. She opens up to him precisely because he isn't a friend, he isn't close to her in that way. The way I see it Spike's status as a vampire, as something non-human and existing outside her world, allows her to see him as a sort of void into which she can pour her anger and frustration knowing it will not come back out. It's because she doesn't love him that she can do that. Now I've never been in a destructive relationship of this kind, but I have occasionally seen members on boards talking about similar experiences they've had, and I'm fairly sure they didn't see it as a form of love (though I welcome anyone to correct me on this if I'm wrong).

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Must. Resist. The bait...

It was not meant as bait. That's what happened, wasn't it? Angel felt their relationship was unhealthy, so he bailed. Buffy would have paid almost any price to be with him. In Graduation, Buffy tries to kill Faith and could have killed herself to save Angel's life. She acts exactly like Spike would have done in a similar situation. Of course, this is just further proof for Angel that their relationship must end.

I think Buffy would do a lot for Spike, because she do feel for him, though I doubt she would ever go as far for him as she did for Angel. I don't think Buffy would have resumed her affair with Spike had he survived, but I doubt she will ever stop caring for him.

 

[Priceless]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. She loves them therefore they cause her pain? So Spike causes her pain therefore she loves him? 😕

With Dawn, Willow and Xander it's her willingness to protect them (and the occasions when they're horrible to her) that causes her anguish over the course of the show. In S6 she's isolated from them, so yes being around them is painful when she feels she can't open up to them.

With Spike it's an entirely different relationship. She's using him like a drug. It's a way to feel something, anything besides the numbness and she knows it's destroying her. It's basically a form of self-harm. She opens up to him precisely because he isn't a friend, he isn't close to her in that way. The way I see it Spike's status as a vampire, as something non-human and existing outside her world, allows her to see him as a sort of void into which she can pour her anger and frustration knowing it will not come back out. It's because she doesn't love him that she can do that. Now I've never been in a destructive relationship of this kind, but I have occasionally seen members on boards talking about similar experiences they've had, and I'm fairly sure they didn't see it as a form of love (though I welcome anyone to correct me on this if I'm wrong).

Lol, yeah what am I saying 😀 Basically that you can love people even if they cause you pain.

To me Spike in S6 is a metaphor for the darkness that Buffy has within her that she has to learn to accept, so she can join the duality of Slayer & Girl together. Buffy is his light, that leads him into getting a soul. They are the other half of each other.

I believe Buffy does love Spike in S6 because she says she did in S7. When she breaks up with him in S6 she says 'I can't love you', not 'I don't love you'. She loves him, but she cannot admit it to herself. That's why she accepts him back so readily in S7, because she loves him and now he has a soul she is able to love him openly.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Now I've never been in a destructive relationship of this kind, but I have occasionally seen members on boards talking about similar experiences they've had, and I'm fairly sure they didn't see it as a form of love (though I welcome anyone to correct me on this if I'm wrong).

I have some personal experience in this arena. Specifically being in a destructive relationship while you are battling depression in your early 20s. So for whatever it's worth that is the perspective I come from when I read this relationship. I understand that we all come with our own personal life experiences and maybe that is why we see the same relationships so differently.

Sex does not equal love. Honestly, I don't think Buffy is in any place to fall in love with anyone during Season 6. Incidentally, I think this is partly what she means when she says she 'can't' love him. Not that she loves him and she is in denial but her state of mind coupled with the fact that he is evil means she is not capable of loving him at this time. She is broken herself. Spike is not pulling her out of her depression he is another hurdle that she has to overcome, an addiction that she has to break. And Buffy is showing this to us over and over throughout the Season - when she cries in front of Tara and desperately asks her why she lets Spike do those things to her or when she is standing over the sink crying after she had sex with Spike up against a tree. Sure love isn't always sunshine and butterflies but I feel very strongly that love does not look like that.

 

[thrasherpix]

Just thought I'd throw in that trusting Spike to be the better man is dumb. That's like trusting Oz to be the better werewolf...and there are moments of Oz in werewolf form that he seems to briefly pause as if in internal conflict, but ultimately Oz is a victim of the werewolf and caught within its curse just as Spike was with the trigger. A lot of people already died and been turned by letting Spike run loose, and it was gambling with the lives of the others.

While it would've been interesting to show flashbacks of the First trying to bite and turn Spike and Anya and he resisted so that the First instead sent him after people he didn't know (which, I want to emphasize, was NOT shown), it was still reckless and dumb in my book, and very OOC for her based on previous seasons. Just because contrived writing makes it work doesn't validate Buffy's decisions. The whole season just comes off to me as very bad Spuffy fanfiction written by a teenager who had perhaps read Twilight and seen the Queen of the Damned movie (not to be confused with the book at all), or plenty of romances that come a dime a dozen (as I see the tropes there), and tried to apply that to Buffy the Vampire Slayer where the characters were based on people other than who they actually had been in previous seasons.

 

[Dora]

Come on people it was all contrived , Starting right back in season 5 what else were they going to do with Spike? remember Riley staking Spike why did Riley not use a real Stake ? why would he have a plastic imitation ? it was all crap to bring Spike to the fore
In season six if he was not Shagging Buffy what Story did he have ? what was the point of him being there ? , again in S7 if Buffy had not swooned all over her Attempted rapist and Abuser and told him to sling his hook like any half sane women would have ...what was Spikes point ?
It goes right back to getting rid of Riley, if Riley had stayed what could they have done with Spike ? Buffy would have had Riley to confined with in S6, someone to watch her Back in seven , what was left for Spike!! they tried to make Spike interesting in Seven and that ruined the second half of that season
JM was very popular with JW , MN had the hots for him , Riley was not popular with the fans , Spike was , so it makes sense to bring his character to the fore , but how can you do that , make Buffy the hero go with someone she should have staked long ago ... you bring her back completely mentally screwed up and then isolate her from her friends
The story lines of 6 and 7 was just to bring Spike to the fore at the cost of the core four, that's great if all you care about is Spike but some of us feel Buffy was a better program when it was about Buffy and her mission , Buffy and her friends, Buffy and her watcher and not about a yob in a leather jacket.....
As fore Buffy loving Spike no she didn't , Dawn asked her in Him and Buffy said she felt for him , and the only time she said she loved Spike was when she knew he was going to die ....even Spike understood, Spike said no you don't. Spike died a heroes death just as Buffy had in 5 its was fitting Spike died a hero at the end of 7 as by then Buffy had been relegated to a also ran it was no longer about Buffy the vampire slayer but Spike

 

[Fool for Buffy]

It was easy for Buffy to feel sorry for Spike at the beginning of season 7, having the experience of taking care of Angel after his return from Hell. Her desire to help people trumps her anger or confusion, especially after she found out that Spike changed. After the church scene, Buffy didn't stop being angry. She just also felt sympathetic, which for Buffy is a much more important emotion. So her attitude change is a direct result of her personality and Spike getting a soul.

Still, as others have said, Buffy didn't just start loving him. Her shift was gradual, all stemming from her ability to forgive and her compassion for people who need a second chance.

And let's not forget that Buffy is probably the most qualified person in the world to determine the difference a soul makes and whether or not people can change. If she believes someone deserves redemption, I believe her. I'm pretty sure almost everyone's favorite characters would be dead if they didn't get a shot at redemption.

 

[buffy1990]

I think by the time season 7 rolls around, Buffy and Spike have so much history that it's hard to say that the soul itself is the only reason she defends him and opens herself up to him. I think the soul plays a factor in that, but in may ways she had opened herself up emotionally to him in the past.

I know many people are disturbed by a lot that went on between Buffy and Spike in S6, which I completely understand, but I always found their relationship so interesting because they had such conflicting feelings for each other. Buffy viewed Spike in many ways as something evil and and a convenient tool for her own self hatred, but at the same time she felt comfortable around him over her friends in many parts of the season and while I don't think she loved him truly during this season, she grew to enjoy his company more than she had in the past.

Meanwhile, Spike claimed to have loved Buffy, which I think he did in some ways, but the demon in him made it impossible to love selflessly, which is why Spike's love was often paired with his own self interest. So, while their relationship in season 6 was crazy unhealthy, it set up a lot of background for what we see in S7. Buffy senses a change in Spike and continues on a road to friendship, and Spike is finally able to love Buffy unconditionally, hence "you're the one, Buffy."

I think the bottom line comes to whether you hold vampires with a soul accountable for their actions without a soul (I believe this was in an episode of TPN's Buffy Guide). In that case, Spike can't be held accountable for the horrible things he did without a soul, just like Angel can't be held accountable for Angelus. I am on this wave of thinking. I'm not AT ALL excusing the things Spike did in S6, but I think Buffy has shown herself to be able to forgive in the soul vs. no soul circumstance. She found it in herself to forgive Angel in S3 for the killings he had done (more easily since she already loved him) and she eventually forgave Spike for his past soulless actions as well (though the comics do show her still dealing with some trauma for that situation).

I think my post ended up somewhere different than it started lol but I guess what I'm saying is that she defended him so much in S7 because she had a history with him and knew he could now be a better person. From the other characters perspective, Spike was just an evil jerk who left and came back with a soul-they have no complex history with him like Buffy so their actions towards him were much less compassionate than Buffy herself.

And, feelings aside, Buffy was acting as a general that season trying to build the strongest army, and Spike was an aid to the fight.

 

[Antho]

Come on people it was all contrived , Starting right back in season 5 what else were they going to do with Spike? remember Riley staking Spike why did Riley not use a real Stake ? why would he have a plastic imitation ? it was all crap to bring Spike to the fore
In season six if he was not Shagging Buffy what Story did he have ? what was the point of him being there ? , again in S7 if Buffy had not swooned all over her Attempted rapist and Abuser and told him to sling his hook like any half sane women would have ...what was Spikes point ?
It goes right back to getting rid of Riley, if Riley had stayed what could they have done with Spike ? Buffy would have had Riley to confined with in S6, someone to watch her Back in seven , what was left for Spike!! they tried to make Spike interesting in Seven and that ruined the second half of that season
JM was very popular with JW , MN had the hots for him , Riley was not popular with the fans , Spike was , so it makes sense to bring his character to the fore , but how can you do that , make Buffy the hero go with someone she should have staked long ago ... you bring her back completely mentally screwed up and then isolate her from her friends
The story lines of 6 and 7 was just to bring Spike to the fore at the cost of the core four, that's great if all you care about is Spike but some of us feel Buffy was a better program when it was about Buffy and her mission , Buffy and her friends, Buffy and her watcher and not about a yob in a leather jacket.....
As fore Buffy loving Spike no she didn't , Dawn asked her in Him and Buffy said she felt for him , and the only time she said she loved Spike was when she knew he was going to die ....even Spike understood, Spike said no you don't. Spike died a heroes death just as Buffy had in 5 its was fitting Spike died a hero at the end of 7 as by then Buffy had been relegated to a also ran it was no longer about Buffy the vampire slayer but Spike

Anytime I see a message from you, I always think you overreacting. But I understand, it's the passion for the show

 

[Dora]

Anytime I see a message from you, I always think you overreacting. But I understand, it's the passion for the show

Thank you, I have , May be I overreact but I feel greatly that the bringing of Spike to the fore in S6 and S7 and JW issues with SMG ( who I follow daily ) ruined Buffy...... for me at least...
I hate how some people will defend his action when he is just a evil selfish vampire in 6 and his over use in 7 and the way Buffy acted towards her attempted rapist in 7 so false...... going to him before Xander in first date WTF ?
I wrote above the show for me was about Buffy and her friends and her life, Spike was just pushed in so much he became dominant over all and and the whole character of the show was altered to allow it
I have said before I was sexually abused as a Child and so much of Buffy relation ship with Spike in Six follows what happened to me.
The whole friend of the Family though to Buffy not wanting anybody to know, run's parallel with what happened to me only difference I see is I was a child while Buffy is suffering mental illness , so when I see as above people talking about love my head is screaming your Stupid he using her
That I guess is my issue with Spike and Spuffy and that's not going away!

 

[MarieVampSlayer]

It was easy for Buffy to feel sorry for Spike at the beginning of season 7, having the experience of taking care of Angel after his return from Hell. Her desire to help people trumps her anger or confusion, especially after she found out that Spike changed. After the church scene, Buffy didn't stop being angry. She just also felt sympathetic, which for Buffy is a much more important emotion. So her attitude change is a direct result of her personality and Spike getting a soul.

Still, as others have said, Buffy didn't just start loving him. Her shift was gradual, all stemming from her ability to forgive and her compassion for people who need a second chance.

And let's not forget that Buffy is probably the most qualified person in the world to determine the difference a soul makes and whether or not people can change. If she believes someone deserves redemption, I believe her. I'm pretty sure almost everyone's favorite characters would be dead if they didn't get a shot at redemption.

Yes!!! This is exactly what I think!

I also think a lot of people forget that even with a chip Spike before S7 was a vampire and therefore not an overall good person because he couldn't be. He was still a slave to the demon inside and was unable to truely be good. For example, as horrible as the AR was (and obvisously written by people who didn't experience that) this would not be new to him as he for sure did way worst before. If you love the character of Spike or not it doesn't change the fact that he was still a monster. However, once he had a soul I think that he could finally genuinely change into a good person like Angel did. And if Faith could have a redemption after stealing Buffy's body, raping Riley, almost klling everybody, torturing Wesley, I think that he deserved that too.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

However, once he had a soul I think that he could finally genuinely change into a good person like Angel did. And if Faith could have a redemption after stealing Buffy's body, raping Riley, almost klling everybody, torturing Wesley, I think that he deserved that too.

But Angelus didn't change into a good person when he got his soul. He WAS a new person - Angel.

 

[Priceless]

But Angelus didn't change into a good person when he got his soul. He WAS a new person - Angel.

Don't you think the relationship between Spike and Buffy in S7 was different. Spike was a new person, even though he had the memories and the feelings. For a start he was crazy when he season opened, and when he tried to act like the old Spike, he fell to pieces. When Buffy tried to touch him, he pushed her away. When he saw what the trigger had made him do, he told her to kill him, it was Spike who asked Buffy to chain him up when he though he was dangerous. He would not have done any of these things pre-soul. For me the only difference between Angelus and Spike is that Angelus had another name for his souled self

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Don't you think the relationship between Spike and Buffy in S7 was different. Spike was a new person, even though he had the memories and the feelings. For a start he was crazy when he season opened, and when he tried to act like the old Spike, he fell to pieces. When Buffy tried to touch him, he pushed her away. When he saw what the trigger had made him do, he told her to kill him, it was Spike who asked Buffy to chain him up when he though he was dangerous. He would not have done any of these things pre-soul. For me the only difference between Angelus and Spike is that Angelus had another name for his souled self

I do think that the Spike/Buffy relationship in Season 7 was different but I didn't see Spike as a completely new person. He was still Spike. Now admittedly, I think some of this was really muddied by the First's torturing and manipulating Spike. I wasn't sure how much of the craziness was the soul and how much was the First/trigger stuff. Spike is obviously feeling the weight of his soul but he seemed to be the same "person." And if I had any doubts in Season 7, then AtS Season 5 really hit it home for me. Spike had the same swagger, the same speech, the same look, the same attitude etc.

I just feel that its inconsistent writing. Spike was too valuable a character to change significantly. I get it. I mean even I would have been bummed to lose Spike, I quite like him.

 

[Dora]

I do think that the Spike/Buffy relationship in Season 7 was different but I didn't see Spike as a completely new person. He was still Spike. Now admittedly, I think some of this was really muddied by the First's torturing and manipulating Spike. I wasn't sure how much of the craziness was the soul and how much was the First/trigger stuff. Spike is obviously feeling the weight of his soul but he seemed to be the same "person." And if I had any doubts in Season 7, then AtS Season 5 really hit it home for me. Spike had the same swagger, the same speech, the same look, the same attitude etc.

I just feel that its inconsistent writing. Spike was too valuable a character to change significantly. I get it. I mean even I would have been bummed to lose Spike, I quite like him.[

Angel and Angelus was two different people , The difference between pre souled Spike and Angulas was Spike was able to make choices were Augelus was totally evil Spike chose to hold Buffy hands after she had dug herself out of the grave, Spike chose to try to kill that girl when he though his chip had stopped working
The First Trigger stuff what was that all about ? The first had a Army of Bringers and a Army of Uber vamps ? .
The First Spike said it was not time yet in the cellar , time for what ? to have his hair bleached, to have a manicure ? it was just anothert stupid insignificant Spike story line

Don't you think the relationship between Spike and Buffy in S7 was different. Spike was a new person, even though he had the memories and the feelings. For a start he was crazy when he season opened, and when he tried to act like the old Spike, he fell to pieces. When Buffy tried to touch him, he pushed her away. When he saw what the trigger had made him do, he told her to kill him, it was Spike who asked Buffy to chain him up when he though he was dangerous. He would not have done any of these things pre-soul. For me the only difference between Angelus and Spike is that Angelus had another name for his souled self

Spike was the same person....Totally selfish A/hole when Faith came down into the cellar he told her about him and Buffy, when he went to Angel he told them straight away unfortunately he forgot to mention the AR, funny way to treat someone you love to use a old term a total Blaggaurd
Yep push her away, told her to stake him, that's Spike always put it on Buffy if he really had a conscious felt guilty for what he had done.... he could have taken a walk in the Sun