Question Spike & Buffy––sibling or romantic?

[buffynmarvel]

Ok, second post in two days after forgetting this site exists for ages 🙈

What relationship vibe between Buffy and Spike do you prefer––chaotic sibling frienemies energy in S4/beginning of S5, or romantic vibes as of later in S5 and onwards? (I love both Bangel and Spuffy in different ways so there's no bias here. I don't choose sides lol).

Personally, their chaotic sibling frienemies is iconic and I love it. I do like their relationship eventually, more so how they feel about each other towards S7. Then Spike's speech to her when she was kicked out by everyone else 🥺

What vibe do you like when it comes to Spuffy?
What's your favourite scene between them? 😊

 

[burrunjor]

Oh definitely the chaotic frenemies of season 4. I so wish they had kept that. It's a little bit more unique to see that with a male villain and a female hero.

The Spuffy stuff as I have said many times before LOL, never gripped me as much because we had already seen it with Angel. Added to that it rewrote Spike a bit, by making him more noble and a lot more stupid, and it undermined what had previously been the best take on evil, monstrous, inhuman vampires I'd ever seen.

Still there were some brilliant, even classic Spuffy episodes, like Fool for Love, Intervention, and some excellent moments like their convo in The Gift about being treated like a man.

As for season 7, well I used to think that was Spike's worst year, and it still as. It's the year he becomes a mini Angel more than most. He's not Angel, he's Spike god damn it! Still looking back on it, the whole story arc that year was so weak, I do wonder what they would have done without Spuffy? All of the most interesting bits did kind of come from him, and Buffy's conflicted feelings for him.

I actually like Lies My Parents Told Me. I agree Spike is an arrogant dick to Wood, but that actually makes more sense, given who he is. No way would he have sucked in and taken it right away like Angel. Also he is kind of right in a way that Wood's mother was a Slayer, he was a vampire, what did Wood think was going to happen? It's not like Holtz, where Angelus went after two innocent children who weren't involved and a poor defenceless woman. Again not saying that makes his murder of Nikki justifiable LOL, but it is more like a predator fighting to kill its prey. In this case you could argue that Nikki was the predator going after him. The fact that Spike didn't devote himself to hunting Wood down also shows he wasn't like Angelus either, IE he was just an animal hunting or defending itself.

Of course again I don't expect Wood to think that makes it okay, but I can understand Spike feeling that way, and that's why Damaged works so well as Spike learns a bit of humility and sees that it's not so easy to brush off.

 

[buffynmarvel]

Oh definitely the chaotic frenemies of season 4. I so wish they had kept that. It's a little bit more unique to see that with a male villain and a female hero.

The Spuffy stuff as I have said many times before LOL, never gripped me as much because we had already seen it with Angel. Added to that it rewrote Spike a bit, by making him more noble and a lot more stupid, and it undermined what had previously been the best take on evil, monstrous, inhuman vampires I'd ever seen.

Still there were some brilliant, even classic Spuffy episodes, like Fool for Love, Intervention, and some excellent moments like their convo in The Gift about being treated like a man.

As for season 7, well I used to think that was Spike's worst year, and it still as. It's the year he becomes a mini Angel more than most. He's not Angel, he's Spike god damn it! Still looking back on it, the whole story arc that year was so weak, I do wonder what they would have done without Spuffy? All of the most interesting bits did kind of come from him, and Buffy's conflicted feelings for him.

I actually like Lies My Parents Told Me. I agree Spike is an arrogant dick to Wood, but that actually makes more sense, given who he is. No way would he have sucked in and taken it right away like Angel. Also he is kind of right in a way that Wood's mother was a Slayer, he was a vampire, what did Wood think was going to happen? It's not like Holtz, where Angelus went after two innocent children who weren't involved and a poor defenceless woman. Again not saying that makes his murder of Nikki justifiable LOL, but it is more like a predator fighting to kill its prey. In this case you could argue that Nikki was the predator going after him. The fact that Spike didn't devote himself to hunting Wood down also shows he wasn't like Angelus either, IE he was just an animal hunting or defending itself.

Of course again I don't expect Wood to think that makes it okay, but I can understand Spike feeling that way, and that's why Damaged works so well as Spike learns a bit of humility and sees that it's not so easy to brush off.

I completely agree. There's nothing better than their relationship in S4 lol.

And yeah, that's true. I never thought of it like them turning him into a mini Angel, but now that you mention it, they did. Him getting a soul was an interesting take, and it did offer some pretty good storylines, but I did like his whole "I'm evil I just can't act on it" thing so he tried to do evil things without hurting people, like stealing and annoying them 😂

That's true what you said about prey and predator as well.

 

[burrunjor]

I completely agree. There's nothing better than their relationship in S4 lol.

And yeah, that's true. I never thought of it like them turning him into a mini Angel, but now that you mention it, they did. Him getting a soul was an interesting take, and it did offer some pretty good storylines, but I did like his whole "I'm evil I just can't act on it" thing so he tried to do evil things without hurting people, like stealing and annoying them 😂

That's true what you said about prey and predator as well.

All of his story arcs in s7 are just retreads of Angels from s2 and 3 sadly.

Being a vampire with a soul who is in love Buffy is the main one, but beyond that.

He goes evil again (the trigger and the moment of happiness. When they are evil they also turn a friend/associate of Buffy's. Holden Webster, Theresa.)

Buffy's friends think she is losing sight of the big picture by protecting him and one of them works with an outsider of the group to try and kill her vampire beau. (Xander with Faith, Giles with Wood.)

Faith tries to come between them as she likes the hot vampire and is a bit jealous and wants to steal Buffy's life.

There is someone whose family was killed by Angel/Spike when they were evil who shows up and has no solace in them becoming a good guy and tries to kill him. (Holtz/Wood, okay this is from Angel, but still I might as well list it.)

There is a period where the vampire is mad after getting his soul back and Buffy has to tend to him, despite feeling uncomfortable around him after his last soulless bout. (Spike being crazy in the basement after getting his soul, Angel getting back from hell.)

The First tries to **** with both souled vampires through hallucinations, mind games, making them think they've seen ghosts, and driving them back to villainy. (Amends, all of S7 of Buffy.)

There is even an episode where Spike and Angel get chained up and tortured by Drusilla (okay not Drusilla in Spike's case, but the First assuming her form.)

It's the same beats every step of the way, and sadly proof that they had run out of ideas. Personally I don't think any of them were done as well as Angel either. Except that Spike's last moment with Buffy was more memorable. Also the flashbacks to Spike and Nikki didn't have to deal with David Boreanaz' Irish accent LOL. I would have also loved to have seen what Drusilla looked like in the 70s with her punky outfit.

The Spike from S2-4 meanwhile was a totally different character to Angel and in some ways better. He obviously wasn't as good in that he wasn't as developed and couldn't lead a show the way Angel did, but he was a lot more fun, which is why everybody liked him LOL.

He was a self server, happy to stab everybody in the back. (In the s2 finale he betrays EVERYONE. Buffy, her friends, Angel, his fellow vampires, even Dru and walks away scot free.) He was also a more practical evil, willing to call it quits, unlike say the Master who will die for his beliefs. He was also more sarcastic, dry and hilarious too, but could be a more vicious enemy as he knew Buffy and Angel better than the others, and could really hit them where it hurts.

I think there was definitely more to explore with that side of him, and indeed Supernatural would have great success with a similar character, Crowley in its run. Still like I said in S5 and 7 Spike did still bring a lot to the show and his episodes did still tend to be the best ones regardless like Fool For Love, or the episode where Buffy finds out he has been killing people again. What was it called?

 

[buffynmarvel]

All of his story arcs in s7 are just retreads of Angels from s2 and 3 sadly.

Being a vampire with a soul who is in love Buffy is the main one, but beyond that.

He goes evil again (the trigger and the moment of happiness. When they are evil they also turn a friend/associate of Buffy's. Holden Webster, Theresa.)

Buffy's friends think she is losing sight of the big picture by protecting him and one of them works with an outsider of the group to try and kill her vampire beau. (Xander with Faith, Giles with Wood.)

Faith tries to come between them as she likes the hot vampire and is a bit jealous and wants to steal Buffy's life.

There is someone whose family was killed by Angel/Spike when they were evil who shows up and has no solace in them becoming a good guy and tries to kill him. (Holtz/Wood, okay this is from Angel, but still I might as well list it.)

There is a period where the vampire is mad after getting his soul back and Buffy has to tend to him, despite feeling uncomfortable around him after his last soulless bout. (Spike being crazy in the basement after getting his soul, Angel getting back from hell.)

The First tries to **** with both souled vampires through hallucinations, mind games, making them think they've seen ghosts, and driving them back to villainy. (Amends, all of S7 of Buffy.)

There is even an episode where Spike and Angel get chained up and tortured by Drusilla (okay not Drusilla in Spike's case, but the First assuming her form.)

It's the same beats every step of the way, and sadly proof that they had run out of ideas. Personally I don't think any of them were done as well as Angel either. Except that Spike's last moment with Buffy was more memorable. Also the flashbacks to Spike and Nikki didn't have to deal with David Boreanaz' Irish accent LOL. I would have also loved to have seen what Drusilla looked like in the 70s with her punky outfit.

The Spike from S2-4 meanwhile was a totally different character to Angel and in some ways better. He obviously wasn't as good in that he wasn't as developed and couldn't lead a show the way Angel did, but he was a lot more fun, which is why everybody liked him LOL.

He was a self server, happy to stab everybody in the back. (In the s2 finale he betrays EVERYONE. Buffy, her friends, Angel, his fellow vampires, even Dru and walks away scot free.) He was also a more practical evil, willing to call it quits, unlike say the Master who will die for his beliefs. He was also more sarcastic, dry and hilarious too, but could be a more vicious enemy as he knew Buffy and Angel better than the others, and could really hit them where it hurts.

I think there was definitely more to explore with that side of him, and indeed Supernatural would have great success with a similar character, Crowley in its run. Still like I said in S5 and 7 Spike did still bring a lot to the show and his episodes did still tend to be the best ones regardless like Fool For Love, or the episode where Buffy finds out he has been killing people again. What was it called?

Oh wow, I never really pieced all of that together, but yes, now you mention it, they are very similar. It's a shame they did that really because Spike was such a great character.

I do like S4 & 5 Spike a lot more (pre his crush on Buffy). He was so much more fun and entertaining.

Haha Supernatural and Buffy––now that's something I wanna see! Lol, I know you meant the writers writing Spike, but still, that crossover would be great 😂

I know what episode you're talking about, but I can't recall what it's called.

 

[thrasherpix]

The first over latter. But I preferred him evil.

And I would not have missed him after s2-3, just as I didn't miss Angel on the show after s3.

 

[Dora]

At last I agree Spike season 2/3 is much better than Spike 6/7

 

[thetopher]

3rd option? When he's trying to kill her and she's kicking his arse in return.

4th option? Apart! lol

But in all seriousness their frenemy interactions from Becoming Pt2 and S4 are pretty enjoyable, with a great sparky back-and-forth dialogue and performances. The later 'romance' is one of the worst depicted in all of fiction; toxic and harmful with all its red flags and entitlement (that includes S7).

 

[AstridDante]

I never got sibling energy from them. There was always underlying sexual tension even when they were enemies. I love them all their iterations tbh enemies, reluctant allies, tentative friendship, toxic lovers, S7 friendship/budding romance.

 

[TamsinValencia]

I can only see them as romantic I could never see them as siblings.

 

[FluffyPuppy]

I love pretty much all of their different relationships throughout the series. I've always enjoyed Spike's character development throughout, and the same applies to their interactions with each other and how they grow as a pair as well as alone. The whole development of their relationship just takes me on a full rollercoaster of different emotions through every season and I absolutely love it.

 

[Taake]

I would’ve loved for Spike to remain a sort evil Crowely type character in the series, as I prefer that dynamic.

Favorite scenes are probably when Spike goes along with Buffy’s ”I’m in a band” lie to her mom, and Lover’s Walk in general. Most of their interactions in s4 are great too!

 

[TamsinValencia]

Are there people that see Buffy and Spike as siblings? Well it definitely would be nowhere near as crazy as some other pairings😂

 

[CHK DeWilSon]

I don't think it's unknown of my heavy dislike for Spike and him being paired up with Buffy, however them as siblings?! 🤨😲
Just No, I can't see that in any way. They never had that kind of connection in my eyes. More so Xander and Buffy having that kind of chemistry despite him liking and wanting her for a time.
Even Buffy and Oz, I could possibly see as a sibling relationship that of it had been develop more it could have work.
But a big no to that being any kind of intention for Buffy in her interactions with Spike throughout the series. Even him as an annoying older brother, I just didn't get or feel that kind of vibe although that's not to say that SMG couldn't play that way with JM and vice versus if the script had required that.

 

[Plasma]

Romantic without a doubt.

I never got that sibling energy from them. The only one that gives off sibling vibes is Xander, mostly during and after S4.

Plus, Spike would probably be a bad sibling. I mean, look at the way he makes fun of his “grandfather” all the time!

 

[Angelkiss]

Buffy and Spike romantic definitely. That sexual tension between them.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

What vibe do you like when it comes to Spuffy?
What's your favourite scene between them? 😊

Welcome back to the board!

BIG Spuffy fan here and always down to discuss my all time favorite couple!

I love all of the stages of Spike and Buffy's relationship - yes, even the few months in which they were sleeping together in S6 which was entirely toxic but a fascinating dynamic. I also love that they get back together in S11.

It'd be hard to choose my favorite scene, but I love these scene in Helles Belles:

I love that smile she gives him when he says she "glows" and that she admits that it hurts seeing him with someone else. These two light up a screen with their chemistry.

I am literally down to discuss Spuffy until I'm blue in the face, so keep the threads coming!

 

[NoShip]

Romantic? Sibling? Neither.

Spike has no real concept of romance until s7 when his guilt is overwhelming. But....his attempts to copy Angel and Riley's romantic gentures ..... well ..... they end up mostly creepy. Spike and Xander should compare notes. Lots of UST towards Buffy, but, all one way until Buffy comes back wrong. Basically, Spike is way out of his league.

Buffy is toying with Spike at best. She is disgusted with Spike but sometimes kinda needs him for info or as dumb muscle. No UST on her end. When she is resurrected, she just does not care. She wants violent sex to be punished and Spike gives it to her.

Come CWDP she suddenly has tons of guilt about how she has treated Spike. So she enters into the absolute best depiction of a co-dependent relationship shown on broadcast tv. Then Spike dies.

With Spike dead and Angel in LA, Buffy FINALLY gets to live her best life [at least until s8].

 

[VampireSlayer07]

They definitely don't have a sibling vibe, but I also didn't really think there was much in romance either. Sure Spike might have had some kind of feelings for her but it took Buffy dying and coming back to life depressed and feeling isolated for her to even give him the time of day. So I have to go with the frenemy/reluctant ally vibe of season four and very early season five. If Spike has to be around that long at all (personally hate the character myself).

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

End of season 5, after Spike refused to tell Glory that Dawn was the key. I don't get romantic vibes from their relationship at that point because it's just unrequited love, it's perfectly platonic on Buffy's side. But I like how deeply Spike cares about Buffy and how she cares about him too because she can see how much he loves her. She acknowledges his humanity and respects him for that, despite the fact he's still technically a monster.

Their season 6 relationship is really disturbing and even their more tender relationship in season 7 is hard to appreciate for me because the previous season left a bad taste.