SoS: The Pack: Xander's Dark Moment?

[nightshade]

Was The Pack Xander's main dark episode, would you have liked to see the episode take place in a later season? Or a different darker Xander episode later?

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Well, I would say either the Wish or Hell's Bells are darker. But I would nominate Entropy, where he truly felt despair.

 

[VampireSlayer07]

Well, I would say either the Wish or Hell's Bells are darker. But I would nominate Entropy, where he truly felt despair.

The Wish is certainly darker but it doesn't really pertain to Xander specifically. Hell's Bells would at least make a bit more sense though one could argue that one is as much Anya-centric as Xander-centric.

 

[Stake fodder]

I might vote for "The Replacement" as putting Xander (well, one version of Xander) in a dark place, even though it had a good ending.

 

[nightshade]

The Wish is an Alternate Universe version of Xander.
Hells Bells/Entropy are more mentally dark rather than action dark, which is more what I was thinking of with this question.

 

[thetopher]

Given that 'The Pack' is about duality and dark nature then perhaps S2 would've been a better fit.
Also the 'love gone wrong' fits with 'The Pack' given Hyena!Xander's interest in Buffy. The problem with The Pack is that it raises an interesting idea and then sweeps it away and never mentions it again except for a gag in 'Phases'. They could've done more with it to give Xander some angst or proper insight or empathy for another character struggling with predatory possession.

Which is probably why the writers HAD to do it in S1 and not S2, it's too close to Angel/Angelus foreshadowing.

I suppose you could've done it to a more mature Xander to give him more material in the latter years. S6 maybe? Anya calls off the wedding because hyena!Xander was a horrid douche the previous episode...meh, it doesn't really fit the 'themes of the season'.

S1 is still probably the best place for it, just it should be referred with/dealt with at some point.

 

[CardboardGhost]

The problem with The Pack is that it raises an interesting idea and then sweeps it away and never mentions it again except for a gag in 'Phases'. They could've done more with it to give Xander some angst or proper insight or empathy for another character struggling with predatory possession.

This is exactly how I felt about it. The call-back in "Phases" felt like such a cheap, throw-away line when it could've given a lot more depth to Xander as a character. In particular I would've wanted to see more of a reaction to finding out Xander was lying about having amnesia... no one really questions it, but it says a lot about him (as well as Giles for keeping it a secret). "The Pack" is a dark moment for Xander, but it's not really ever acknowledged as one. This episode and "Teacher's Pet" are the two Xander-centric episodes of the season, and both are dealing with themes of sexual violence, once with him as the victim and once as the aggressor (although him being possessed complicates that, of course), but then afterwards it's always laughed off as "horny teenage boy ends up in wacky situations because he's only thinking about sex." There wasn't really a point in bringing it up again if it was just going to be comedic relief.

 

[famicommander]

The episode itself pretty much lets Xander off the hook for his behavior. I mean, the hyena possession drove those other kids to freaking cannibalism. I know they were jerks to start out with, but I think a supernatural whammy that makes people eat other people is enough to forgive Xander's indiscretions in the episode and the characters pretty much behave as such. That's why Giles plays along with his amnesia claims rather than making him face the music as he would normally do when something IS Xander's fault.

If we're looking at Xander being really dark, he set up Angel to be murdered by Faith and would've gone with her to help had he not stumbled upon an injured Giles. I'm no fan of Angel but he didn't deserve to be murdered, and Xander knowingly taking part in a plot to kill him is possibly the worst intentional act we see him commit in the series. It's similar to, but worse than, when he withheld the information about Willow's second soul restoration attempt from Buffy as she went into battle with Angelus. Xander's jealousy of Angel is a consistent thing and it brings out the worst in him, culminating in attempted murder.

Using magic to try to make Cordelia love him just so that he could crush her feelings in front of the whole school is also pretty psychotic. Then it backfires and essentially roofies the entire female population of the town, and after it's done Buffy thanks Xander for not raping her. And then Cordelia thinks it's romantic Xander invoked the black arts to force her to love him again (even though it didn't work). I don't think she even finds out that the intent was to humiliate her. Instead she takes him back happily. The whole thing is played for laughs, and the episode is pretty funny at certain points, but there's a definite darkness to Xander's intent on top of the ick factor for how the episode framed it. Giles is the only one who really takes Xander to task at all, and all he really does is call him dumb and send him to his room. Well, Oz does punch him in the face too. Definitely deserved.

 

[NotASlayer]

The episode itself pretty much lets Xander off the hook for his behavior. I mean, the hyena possession drove those other kids to freaking cannibalism. I know they were jerks to start out with, but I think a supernatural whammy that makes people eat other people is enough to forgive Xander's indiscretions in the episode and the characters pretty much behave as such. That's why Giles plays along with his amnesia claims rather than making him face the music as he would normally do when something IS Xander's fault.

And this was certainly not Xander's fault; he didn't ask to be basically mind-raped, nor was it a result of his actions. And the cannibals, reputedly from what I hear about the Sunnydale yearbook, were not punished for that; I think Xander not being present was done deliberately to stop his character from crossing a line that, even if not his fault, would be difficult to come back from. It is also notable that the first thing Xander does on the possession being broken is to defend Willow from the Zookeeper.

 

[CardboardGhost]

The episode itself pretty much lets Xander off the hook for his behavior. I mean, the hyena possession drove those other kids to freaking cannibalism. I know they were jerks to start out with, but I think a supernatural whammy that makes people eat other people is enough to forgive Xander's indiscretions in the episode and the characters pretty much behave as such. That's why Giles plays along with his amnesia claims rather than making him face the music as he would normally do when something IS Xander's fault.

This is true. The episode doesn't need to punish Xander when we've already established that this isn't something he would choose to do, because he was literally possessed and it was out of his control. But it's still a really serious moment, even if it's not treated as such. I think that once you make the choice to bring it up again after the fact, that means we now have to acknowledge what happened. It wouldn't be fair to blame Xander solely for what happened but it still did happen and is worth treating as serious. Buffy was still assaulted, and "he didn't mean to" doesn't undo that, even if within the context of the episode it's true. I don't question why Giles lets it slide rather than calling him out on the lie, but I do question why Buffy and Willow seem to have basically no reaction to finding out that he lied. It cheapens "The Pack" because not only does the episode itself not give Buffy much of a reaction in the moment (I view the way she joked about it as a coping mechanism), but she doesn't react in "Phases" to learning Xander lied about not remembering it, which is just wasted potential angst and means that the events of "The Pack" don't actually matter in the long-run.

I think Xander not being present was done deliberately to stop his character from crossing a line that, even if not his fault, would be difficult to come back from. It is also notable that the first thing Xander does on the possession being broken is to defend Willow from the Zookeeper.

I hadn't thought about it like this, but I think you're right. Ultimately Buffy is able to defend herself, so the horror is more so the implications of what could have happened rather than what did, while Flutie did just literally get eaten. Xander tried to do something terrible but the other possessed kids did, and it's a lot easier to brush off something that didn't actually happen. Had Xander been part of the group that ate Flutie, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to move past it.

Using magic to try to make Cordelia love him just so that he could crush her feelings in front of the whole school is also pretty psychotic. Then it backfires and essentially roofies the entire female population of the town, and after it's done Buffy thanks Xander for not raping her. And then Cordelia thinks it's romantic Xander invoked the black arts to force her to love him again (even though it didn't work). I don't think she even finds out that the intent was to humiliate her. Instead she takes him back happily. The whole thing is played for laughs, and the episode is pretty funny at certain points, but there's a definite darkness to Xander's intent on top of the ick factor for how the episode framed it. Giles is the only one who really takes Xander to task at all, and all he really does is call him dumb and send him to his room. Well, Oz does punch him in the face too. Definitely deserved.

I don't know that I agree that "the whole thing is played for laughs"? A lot of it is, but I think that especially as things escalate it becomes clearer that the situation he has created is dangerous, and he did all of it as a poorly thought out and honestly cruel reaction to a relatively minor moment of humiliation (being dumped on Valentine's Day literally moments after giving Cordelia a nice gift). Because Xander is incredibly childish and insecure, his attempts to dominate different situations (and, in this case, Cordelia) often have a funny tone to them, but I don't think that means the episode is pure comedy and not taking any of it seriously. Cordy finding it sweet is the main punchline, I think, and it works because she doesn't have the other context. It's dramatic irony; the spell he cast to get "revenge" on her backfires and then she loves the gesture (or, what she thinks the gesture was supposed to be) and wants to get back together.

The scene where Buffy thanks Xander is gross, though. It gives him way too much credit. I'm going to argue that Buffy hitting on Xander under the love spell could actually be viewed as a parallel to "The Pack," though: Xander under supernatural influence assaulted Buffy and then later a bewitched Buffy propositioned Xander. They keep ending up in sexual situations against their will and moving on from it as quickly as possible as long as nothing actually happens. As long as it doesn't go too far then they can just sweep it under the rug, which is... kind of a bleak way of looking at sexual violence and crossed boundaries. This would have been a much more interesting theme than "Xander is a good person because he didn't rape Buffy while she was under a spell and this counts as character development somehow." The episode really goes out of its way to praise him for not being an awful person, which seems like a recurring thing with Xander.

 

[famicommander]

Cordy finding it sweet is the main punchline, I think, and it works because she doesn't have the other context. It's dramatic irony; the spell he cast to get "revenge" on her backfires and then she loves the gesture (or, what she thinks the gesture was supposed to be) and wants to get back together.

But this is essentially rewarding Xander for completely awful behavior. He hatched a revenge scheme out of pettiness and jealousy which backfired with severe consequences to people outside the original scope of the spell, and for initiating it all Xander is rewarded by getting his girlfriend back.

He acted with malice, showed utter incompetence in the attempt, hurt a lot of innocents, then lied to her about it and she swoons. It's disgusting.

And it's even worse that she takes him back thinking that he tried to essentially mind control her. A similar issue with Tara and Willow down the line. Cordelia should be utterly incensed that Xander tried to use magic to override her free will, but instead she thinks it's cute.

And I get that part of the episode is Cordelia accepting that she loved Xander all along and that she needs to be herself regardless of what her peer group thinks, but it's a really bad mixed message when taken in the full context of the events of the episode.

 

[CardboardGhost]

But this is essentially rewarding Xander for completely awful behavior. He hatched a revenge scheme out of pettiness and jealousy which backfired with severe consequences to people outside the original scope of the spell, and for initiating it all Xander is rewarded by getting his girlfriend back.

He acted with malice, showed utter incompetence in the attempt, hurt a lot of innocents, then lied to her about it and she swoons. It's disgusting.

And it's even worse that she takes him back thinking that he tried to essentially mind control her. A similar issue with Tara and Willow down the line. Cordelia should be utterly incensed that Xander tried to use magic to override her free will, but instead she thinks it's cute.

And I get that part of the episode is Cordelia accepting that she loved Xander all along and that she needs to be herself regardless of what her peer group thinks, but it's a really bad mixed message when taken in the full context of the events of the episode.

Oh, I fully agree and do not like Xander's actions in this episode (or most episodes... he's not a favorite of mine), I was just disagreeing with the idea that the episode does all of this for the sake of comedy. I don't think it's all meant to be funny. There's a lighthearted tone for a lot of it but that's not the same as playing it for laughs. I agree that the episode ultimately rewards Xander for his behavior and am not a fan. I think it can be true that something is meant to be lighthearted, thematically complex, and have uncomfortable implications (or worse) all at the same time. Xander-centric episodes are always good examples of this.

I will also say, though, that it would bother me less if it didn't feel like the show as a whole* was rewarding him for this kind of behavior rather than just this one episode. I don't think it's the worst choice in the world for Cordelia to find it sweet, because even though you're right that she should be mad, how people should react isn't always the same as what they actually do. This is a season that keeps playing around with who should and shouldn't be forgiven, how our partners want us to act, what we hide from partners, etc, so having her choose Xander even when what he's doing is controlling isn't unrelated to other episodes about relationshp problems, in my opinion. When watching this episode by itself, it makes sense to me, even if think the execution could be clearer (and you're right, Cordelia's arc in this episode does give mixed signals, I hadn't noticed that before). When watching it with the context of how Xander treats women consistently, it feels more like things are always going to work out in his favor because all Xander has to do to Deserve a romantic partner is to not be Evil. As long as he gets to the end and can say he regrets his actions, even if he never internalizes it or shows it with his behavior, then he's learned his lesson and is good enough. I think it's a problem that this is a pattern, not that it happened in the love spell episode specifically (or that Cordelia's response is one that romanticizes his possessive behavior).

*I'm currently watching the show for the first time, so when I say "The show as a whole" I'm actually only referring to the first two seasons since those are the only ones I've seen all the way through. So it would be more accurate to say that not only is his behavior rewarded in this episode, but everything that comes before it sets it up to happen. The show always wants us to think he's just a goofy silly guy who gets picked on and of course it's justified for him to get the girl by any means necessary. Which I simply disagree with.

 

[garfan]

I think the show expected more people to support Xander. He said he wasn't going to do anything to her except hurt her feelings, and Cordy had always been a bully who didn't care about other people's feelings. And he had just gifted her a very nice and presumably expensive necklace right before she dumped him and she kept it

 

[famicommander]

I think the show expected more people to support Xander. He said he wasn't going to do anything to her except hurt her feelings, and Cordy had always been a bully who didn't care about other people's feelings. And he had just gifted her a very nice and presumably expensive necklace right before she dumped him and she kept it

If he had chosen a way to humiliate her that did not involve magical brainwashing and putting several innocents at risk then more people would sympathize with him. But when your "revenge" constitutes a far more serious offense than what you're taking revenge for, the moral high ground is gone. And then Xander not going through with the humiliation and essentially getting the result of a love spell by the end makes it even tougher to swallow.

 

[garfan]

If he had chosen a way to humiliate her that did not involve magical brainwashing and putting several innocents at risk then more people would sympathize with him. But when your "revenge" constitutes a far more serious offense than what you're taking revenge for, the moral high ground is gone. And then Xander not going through with the humiliation and essentially getting the result of a love spell by the end makes it even tougher to swallow.

at the time he conceived of the plan we weren't supposed to think others were in danger and in fact we were asked to brush off the fact Amy was mind controlling her teachers(and in fact we did cause no one ever talks about that) and the fact mental violations weren't treated as a big deal up to that point.

No one cared about all the people's mind suppressed under their costumes at Halloween and when Xander was possessed people still find a way to blame him for his actions

 

[CardboardGhost]

No one cared about all the people's mind suppressed under their costumes at Halloween and when Xander was possessed people still find a way to blame him for his actions

People did care about the mind-control aspect of Halloween, though? What happened to everyone at Halloween is unambiguously a bad thing. And while people can sometimes be too harsh on possessed Xander, I've never seen anyone blaming him for it.

Taking away someone's ability to control themselves, taking away their autonomy, is always bad. The fact that Amy was doing it doesn't mean it's okay for Xander to do, and everyone forgives Xander immediately for it because he did the bare minimum of not taking advantage of Buffy. I don't see a point in giving Xander the benefit of the doubt here, because even if he supposedly learned from it, he was still setting out to humiliate a girl for breaking up with him (red flag), blackmailed someone else to help him do it (red flag), and was planning to use magic to brainwash her in order to accomplish it (red flag). The show expected us to be sympathetic to him because it always expects us to be sympathetic to him, but the episode doesn't actually write him sympathetically.

 

[Tome]

The episode itself pretty much lets Xander off the hook for his behavior. I mean, the hyena possession drove those other kids to freaking cannibalism. I know they were jerks to start out with, but I think a supernatural whammy that makes people eat other people is enough to forgive Xander's indiscretions in the episode and the characters pretty much behave as such. That's why Giles plays along with his amnesia claims rather than making him face the music as he would normally do when something IS Xander's fault.

If we're looking at Xander being really dark, he set up Angel to be murdered by Faith and would've gone with her to help had he not stumbled upon an injured Giles. I'm no fan of Angel but he didn't deserve to be murdered, and Xander knowingly taking part in a plot to kill him is possibly the worst intentional act we see him commit in the series. It's similar to, but worse than, when he withheld the information about Willow's second soul restoration attempt from Buffy as she went into battle with Angelus. Xander's jealousy of Angel is a consistent thing and it brings out the worst in him, culminating in attempted murder.

Using magic to try to make Cordelia love him just so that he could crush her feelings in front of the whole school is also pretty psychotic. Then it backfires and essentially roofies the entire female population of the town, and after it's done Buffy thanks Xander for not raping her. And then Cordelia thinks it's romantic Xander invoked the black arts to force her to love him again (even though it didn't work). I don't think she even finds out that the intent was to humiliate her. Instead she takes him back happily. The whole thing is played for laughs, and the episode is pretty funny at certain points, but there's a definite darkness to Xander's intent on top of the ick factor for how the episode framed it. Giles is the only one who really takes Xander to task at all, and all he really does is call him dumb and send him to his room. Well, Oz does punch him in the face too. Definitely deserved.

While I agree with a lot of what you said in your post, I can't help but notice that you seem to only give the benefit of the doubt to Cordelia and assume the worst of Xander. Also, using terms like "psychotic" and "roofiing" is a little extreme, don't you think?

Taken at face value, Cordelia dumping Xander to please her friends is incredibly stupid, conceited, and cowardly. It is a heartbreaking thing to do to someone you love. However, one can empathize with Cordy when taking into consideration what we know about her, that her status at the school is of extreme importance to her. More so, we find out that she kept Xander's locket, meaning that it was a difficult decision for her and that she does love Xander. She might even regret her decision. There are nuances.

Now is it possible to equally empathize with Xander and understand why he would be upset over what just happened considering the reason Cordelia chose to break up with him? Is it possible to understand why he would be mad that she seems to have let it out right away, making him the laughing stock at school (when she must have known by that point how he was treated at school AND at home)? Also, why automatically assume that he would have actually humiliated her? Everyone says things they don't actually mean when they are upset sometimes. Is it possible that if the spell did work correctly, Xander would have changed his mind about the humiliation part? Maybe his little immature vengeance wouldn't have gone much further?

Speaking of immaturity, keep in mind that both Cordy and Xander were teenagers. It shouldn't be too surprising that they didn't always make the best decisions. Imagine if magic actually existed in our world and teenagers had access to it. It'd be crazy.

As for OP, 'The Pack' is definitely a dark episode. I don't know if I can really qualify it as Xander being at his darkest because it wasn't actually him. I think I agree with famicommander that him trying to get Angel killed was pretty bad. When he got nasty toward Buffy, Anya, and Spike in 'Entropy' was also another low for him, imo.

 

[NotASlayer]

Buffy was still assaulted, and "he didn't mean to" doesn't undo that, even if within the context of the episode it's true.

I think "he didn't mean to" is an inaccurate phrase that puts blame on Xander. For B, B & B, it is completely true; Xander did something that had an effect he had not planned. But in The Pack, what didn't Xander mean to do? He didn't mean to get mind-raped by an outsider's actions and be forced to do things that he had no control over? Xander is a victim and in his assault of Buffy you end up with the odd situation where both are victims, though Xander would have been, unfairly in this instance, judged more harshly. Xander cannot be blamed for what he did because he didn't do it. Even worse, he got to keep those memories. Imagine if it had gone further and Xander had to live with a memory of a horrific action like that, even knowing it wasn't him. It would be difficult not to be negatively affected by that.

Speaking of immaturity, keep in mind that both Cordy and Xander were teenagers. It shouldn't be too surprising that they didn't always make the best decisions.

Yes; you cannot expect people who are by definition not mature adults to behave like mature adults. Especially when many mature adults struggle to behave like such.

Imagine if magic actually existed in our world and teenagers had access to it. It'd be crazy.

Try "horrific."

 

[garfan]

people criticize Xander for lying about not remembering but I don't think any good would come from not doing it. People think Buffy deserves to be able to confront the person who attacked her.

But that means Xander either accepts blame for something he had no control over or Buffy has to actively forgive him for something she endured rather than just letting it go

 

[NotASlayer]

People think Buffy deserves to be able to confront the person who attacked her.

As the Zookeeper was the one responsible, basically she did confront her attacker. He did not survive the confrontation.