Redemption arcs: best or worst thing about Buffy/Angel?

Redemption arcs: good or bad?

  • Good

    Votes: 4 57.1%

  • Bad

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Total voters
    7
Mott1

Mott1

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Redemption arcs: good or bad? Do you think they improved the show and were your favourite things in it, or did they take up too much time, make watching a miserable experience and slow the pacing? Vote/discuss.
 
Bad. The show simply didn't have the time needed for redemption arcs and they were often completely ignored. The only one that had any merit was Angel's, because, thanks to it taking a century, they were able to do flashbacks of various points in it.
 
I like the idea, but I don't think redemption arcs were done well in the series. So I'm conflicted between voting Good (as I like the idea and the character growth implied by it) and Bad (the shows were all over the place, inconsistent at best, and typically did not handle them well).
 
I voted for bad because they were not done particularly well and their victims do not come back. When the victims are not available to make amends to, how can there be redemption? Even in 12-step programs, one of the steps is to make amends to everyone you have harmed.
 
Good at the beginning early years when Joss and co had a genuine fascination with the idea of redemption. So much so they did an entire spin-off show exploring it.

But after a time it came very tired, lazily written, repetitive ('close ally "goes evil" and we wonder if they can be brought back tot he side of good/ever be redeemed') and, frankly, not so much a character arc as 'this is something this character can ponder for an episode' or whatever.
Like, it was actually a character blip. A character oops. A character 'yeah I know I killed some people but I feel really bad about it so can we just move on?' No arc to be seen.

I mean, nobody in Buffy S7 main cast actually cares about redeeming themselves for past mistakes/body counts, they're just there to wrap up personal storylines or whatever.
 
I mean, nobody in Buffy S7 main cast actually cares about redeeming themselves for past mistakes/body counts, they're just there to wrap up personal storylines or whatever.

@thetopher interesting look at the matter, i hoped for season 8 then but 7 seasons is a good run
 
Angel, obviously, good. Spike needed to show some remorse, but to get back to business, fine.

Willow... Never really did anything to atone for her wrongs. Like, you are a witch. You can check on the dead. You can revive the dead! Do an episode that's kind of a cross between Hellraiser and Passing Through Gethsemane. Buffy vs. Fornicus the Hell Lord!

Andrew: I thought the lesson was okay. But, I don't care much for Andrew. He can open the Puzzle of infinite delights for all I care.
 
hoponlilmama
hoponlilmama
Very few care for Andrew... ;)
AlphaFoxtrot said:
Angel, obviously, good. Spike needed to show some remorse, but to get back to business, fine.

Willow... Never really did anything to atone for her wrongs. Like, you are a witch. You can check on the dead. You can revive the dead! Do an episode that's kind of a cross between Hellraiser and Passing Through Gethsemane. Buffy vs. Fornicus the Hell Lord!

Andrew: I thought the lesson was okay. But, I don't care much for Andrew. He can open the Puzzle of infinite delights for all I care.
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Do we know you can check on the dead? Yeah, you can manipulate souls. But is there any way to do that that doesn't drag them to this plane of existence?
 
garfan said:
Do we know you can check on the dead? Yeah, you can manipulate souls. But is there any way to do that that doesn't drag them to this plane of existence?
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Talking to the dead is Necromancy 101. Entry level Witchcraft has to be, discerning, detecting and communing with the spirits. You talk to them, propitiate them, gain their trust and favor. Then you go about learning their secrets and getting them to do stuff for you.

Even if Willow didn't earn the knowledge for herself, it should be a small thing to go back and figure out how to locate Warren, and figure out what happened to him after she killed him. Maybe he's in heaven, I hear they look down on killing people during confession. Maybe he is in hell, and restoring someone to life to give them an opportunity to turn themself into the police and serve a jail sentence seems like a more merciful act than immolation. I mean, unless you really believe Warren is worst than Angel. Is he? That sounds like a better idea for an episode than Willow is Warren and Warren is Willow?
 
AlphaFoxtrot said:
Talking to the dead is Necromancy 101. Entry level Witchcraft has to be, discerning, detecting and communing with the spirits. You talk to them, propitiate them, gain their trust and favor. Then you go about learning their secrets and getting them to do stuff for you.
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We don't have the lore to know if that's true in the Buffyverse.

AlphaFoxtrot said:
I mean, unless you really believe Warren is worst than Angel. Is he?
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I mean I do. Not Angelus, but Angel yeah.

AlphaFoxtrot said:
That sounds like a better idea for an episode than Willow is Warren and Warren is Willow?
Click to expand...

Not particularly. I would personally like an ep where everyone, including Willow, has to come to grips with the fact Willow, feels guilty about torturing Warren and fighting her friends, but not actually for killing him
 
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