Reboot Still Happening

I hope the remake is not an exact copy, in this day and age having a chosen one hopping into bed with the same creatures (demons) she is meant to be a slayer of is just - silly.

Buffy wasn't the only one to fall prey to that. Remember Giles in "Dracula"? He fell into the pit with those three women and did not want to be rescued by Riley (or anybody else). Dracula is the iconic story where sexual attraction is as overt as they could make it in the Victorian era. Unlike in Buffy, part of the attraction of the vampire legend is the sexual arousal and attraction. Dracula didn't have to force himself on anyone - they agreed willingly to respond.

Maybe that part of the legend could be revived in a reboot a bit more explicitly, but I don't expect the reboot to ever take place. It is vapourware - ideas put out into the marketplace just to see if there is enough interest to continue. Tell me when some money has changed hands and I will be willing to believe this is actually going to happen.
 
N
NoShip
Spot On.
I wish i knew what the current viewership of Buffy re-runs is.

Somebody figured it out and there must be enough people watching 25 year old re-runs to make the costs of production today viable.

I expect the current viewership number is the driver of the reboot.

Anyone have an accurate current viewership number?
 
I do wonder just why they cancelled Slayers. It looked to be basically money for nothing for Di$ney, and if there isn't a reboot coming out, there is definitely no risk of getting canons confused. Which did not make much sense as a reason in the first place.
 
I grew up in West LA. Disney has always been "protective" of their IP to rediculous extremes. Disney's local nickname has been "The Black Rats" since my grandfather's day.

My guess would be that the cancellation had nothing to do with any upcomming reboot - Disney's comics are all over the multiverse - but with Disney's abhorance of controversy. Slayers was very controversial within the fandom and that was probably enough for Disney to pull the plug.
 
"Very controversial" may be "Spuffy fans threw a wobbly." It seemed like the overall view was positive.
As discussed in the dedicated thread to Slayers, it wasn't without its problems, but overall it appeared it was received with excitement. And we were teased with the possibilities of the second season
like maybe bringing in Willow and some other characters from the series
.
 
As discussed in the dedicated thread to Slayers, it wasn't without its problems, but overall it appeared it was received with excitement. And we were teased with the possibilities of the second season
like maybe bringing in Willow and some other characters from the series
.
The last time I checked, it was about two thirds positive on Amazon. And I do not think it deserved the 1/5s it got any more than, truthfully, it deserved the 5/5s, but you rate 5/5 to get more.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
right, and that's why ratings have lost their purpose. things are just rated higher or lower based upon your agenda.
Re: Ratings; We would need an insider for that. The only evidence I have is that Fuse TV appears to be fairly weak as a network. But who knows what that means in the age of streaming. Buffy is still selling merchandise, Slayers was successful. So, if existing audience interest is a factor, it should appear to be sufficient for a property that's barely marketed.
 
NoShip asked what the accurate viewership ( #42 ) was of old re-runs of BTVS was. As far as I am aware it is accurately placed as more than 1.
I hope that answer will begin to suffice?
 
NoShip asked what the accurate viewership ( #42 ) was of old re-runs of BTVS was. As far as I am aware it is accurately placed as more than 1.
I hope that answer will begin to suffice?
Ha!

I'd be curious to the breakdown of viewership. As in, how many are brand new fans, and how many are older fans who don't use their BTVS DVD box-set and just stream the series.
 
Ha!

I'd be curious to the breakdown of viewership. As in, how many are brand new fans, and how many are older fans who don't use their BTVS DVD box-set and just stream the series.
I recently saw both Buffy and Angel on E4, a UK channel. Both series were also available on the Channel 4 (E4 is part of Channel 4) streaming service at about the same time, but they were not available for as long as I would expect, so I think that perhaps demand is still high enough that contracts for streaming are comparatively short.
 
I recently saw both Buffy and Angel on E4, a UK channel. Both series were also available on the Channel 4 (E4 is part of Channel 4) streaming service at about the same time, but they were not available for as long as I would expect, so I think that perhaps demand is still high enough that contracts for streaming are comparatively short.
Great info.

I have noticed that all the viewership available is like @NotASlayer's. No direct info like the Nielsens.

I wish i did not have to infer the numbers.
 
At this point, I won't believe anything until it's officially announced. I've been fooled too many times.

As for it being "woke" and it being an issue... 🤣 Am I in crazy land? You realize that if the 1997 Buffy the Vampire Slayer was released today, people who are "anti-woke" would shit on the show for carrying a feminist and LBGTQ+ agenda, and would whine every time a female character in the show said/implied men suck? Buffy has always been "woke". I seriously doubt that would change in a reboot/remake.

It's insane to me how the "anti-woke" crowd often defends shows or films from the past that had elements of what they would now qualify as "woke", but when a new project comes out that has similar elements, they're like "This is terrible! Why are they trying to force-feed me all this woke crap!" It's like their "anti-woke" glasses are only functioning when they watch new media. 😵

Sorry I have to interject.

Woke fiction is NOT the same as diverse or even political fiction. Sorry but woke people don't get a monopoly on women or minorities as much as they'd love too.

Something like Red Dwarf or Xena for instance are NOT woke, because they have female, black and LGBT leading characters and just get on with it. Xena doesn't shit on men, Red Dwarf has never mentioned ONCE that half its cast most of the time is black. In all the feuds, bonding moments with Lister and Rimmer not once has it ever been brought up Lister is black, Rimmer is white.

Also whilst Xena is a very feminine character, that's not all she is. Xena and the other strong women of the show like Callisto and Alti and Gabrielle are fully rounded characters, and they aren't meant to represent women, because how could they? How do you represent 50 percent of humanity? It would be ridiculous to assume that Batman needs to talk about issues facing young men today because he is a man. Similarly let female characters be their own thing.

Woke fiction meanwhile, will never shut up about how great it is for having black people, LGBT people and women as leads, in the show itself. Never mind the insufferably smug writers on social media and actors, but in the show itself, they'll often mention it. Furthermore the men will be shat on for being men and the female and minority characters will have to represent every issue facing those groups even if they are aliens from outer space and will have very little personalities beyond those aspects. Really they're trophies for the writers ego.



Do NOT tell me you don't see a difference between those two series in how they tackle female characters. That's why Xena was a huge hit and Supergirl well inspired videos like the one above taking the absolute piss out of it.

Of course fair enough sometimes if you are setting something in the past, when racism and persecution were more common, and you want it to be authentic, then fair enough you may have to draw more overt attention to a character being black. Something like the Umbrella Academy that had a bisexual man and a black woman in 1960s America I think was a good example of doing this but not making it too preachy, but even then watch you don't make it too condescending.

Also there is a difference between a new character and gender flipping an old one. People don't like their favourite characters being changed in all kinds of ways, and yes sometimes that can include their gender and physical appearance, which absolutely applies in reverse. Imagine a white, blonde haired Blade? Even just physically that wouldn't seem like the character.

Meanwhile in terms of making something political, again there are ways of doing it that don't wind people up.

Look at ironically the original DW series. The first Dalek story is very political, but it follows the general rules for getting away with politics.

1/ It's story still holds up. Regardless of the politics the story builds up a spooky atmosphere, intriguing mystery, the Daleks themselves are fleshed out and interesting antagonists who have had a lot of thought put into them, and there is great world building and imagination.

2/ The politics is presented as a metaphor and therefore doesn't have to reference the current day and date itself

3/ The Daleks whilst inspired by WW2 tap into race hatred in general, as well as fascism, man's destructive effect on the environment and mindless conformity.

4/ It was a brave and bold move back in 1963 to tackle race hatred, never mind WW2

5/ It was presented in a natural way, IE part of the plot, the Daleks motivation, so when it was talked about it felt natural and not just a lecture.

Modern day woke politics meanwhile almost always fails in these respects. Ironically look at a Jodie Whittaker era Who story like Rosa. It has a paper thin plot, because the writer cares more about the politics than the sci fi. The villain has no motivation, no backstory, nothing to help him stand out. The actor is good sure, but he isn't given anything to work with. The story does reference modern day politics like Obama, which has already dated it as since it aired positive opinion of Obama, particularly among the left has dropped considerably. It also was not brave doing a story about how racism is bad in 2018. It was jumping on a bandwagon and had nothing original to say about Rosa Parks. (In fact it was a very shallow reading of her legacy.) Finally it wasn't even presented in a natural way. We literally had Jodie lecturing the audience at the end with video footage to back it up like a lecture!

Now Buffy IMO falls much more into Classic Who and Xena and Red Dwarf territory when it came to its politics and how it presented minorities and female characters, than it does modern day woke crap like Supergirl. Of course that's not to say that sometimes it didn't mess up, like Beer Bad being too on the nose politically. Even the greats **** up (personally I think Invasion of the Dinosaurs was an example of a terribly done political classic who story, whilst ironically Star Trek TOS I think ****ed up all the time when it came to overt politics like The Omega Glory that IS as badly done as something like Supergirl, only it's right wing politics.)

Still let's not conflate Buffy with the crap of today.

(That said I do agree that the backlash to woke shows has become so great, that sadly yes nowadays people are often quick to assume anything with a gay, or female lead will be woke. This hasn't been helped by guys like Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker who are a genuinely toxic influence on the genre and its fandom. Still if that has happened, well the people to blame are still the woke writers and producers who whipped everybody up into culture war crap.)
 
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
You nailed it!
Oh no, no, no, no, no, NOOOOOOOO!

I predict it will be like the Charmed reboot. I would love a story about a new slayer in Sunnydale instead.
uhm, Sunnydale is gone. how do you create a new slayer for a Sunnydale that's in a hole? did they rebuild it completely on the edge of the old Sunnydale? Now that would be interesting... except it would be kind of pointless since the hellmouth was actually CLOSED. I'd like to see a new series set on a DIFFERENT Hellmouth. if there's one in Cleveland, why can't there be another one somewhere else (I can't think of any reason anyone would want to set a series in Cleveland - the only one I can remember is the Drew Carey show and that was basically filmed on a sound stage). the nature of a vampire/demon show is that a lot of it needs to be filmed out doors.

How about a Hellmouth near Washington DC? or Las Vegas. A lot of places in the country seem to be ripe for there being demons as an explanation of some of what happens there...

and I really like the spinoff with future slayers version of things. I watched both Hawaii 5-0 series and I really think they should have made the second one the son of the original... i think it would have been interesting to see a family of dynamic. The time between the two series was quite long, however and i don't think it had a following the way that Buffy has... Something like MASH had that kind of following. And of course, Star Trek. And the spinoffs/updates all respect the original and i think it created a Star Trek universe that is amazing and creative. I want that for Buffy!

And I DO want diversity. No apologies. I think it's mandatory that the world on screen look like the real world and the real world is NOT all white. Not even in much of the US. If it's set in a place like Southern California, it MUST show a diverse cast that is representative of the populace. Buffy was never about politics, so I don't think the show needs to be 'about' politics now. When Buffy brought Tara and Willow together it wasn't 'about' them being lesbians. It was about two people who turned out to be lesbian and that had a very powerful impact on the series and the viewers. That said, the showrunners really mishandled Tara's ending. Killing her off fell neatly into the old Hollywood trope... 'the only good lesbian is a dead lesbian' especially if she's a GOOD lesbian. So yes, I want to see sensitively handled diversity. But no preaching. I don't like being preached at. I think having a truly diverse set of writers, producers and directors will help with this. If you have people who live the experience, their writing can reflect this. If the show runners don't force a preachy narrative... and trust me, there's plenty of preachy narratives all over TV and not all of them are pro diversity.

I've noticed that 'Woke-preachy' stuff tends to happen when arrogant mostly white writers or show runners think they're doing black folks a favour by being 'inclusive' and it can get old fast. I want to see myself on the screen and in the narrative. I don't want them to 'turn Buffy black' in order to accomplish that. Just because I am a black, bisexual doesn't mean that 'my' Buffy needs to be one as well. But it would be nice to have well written three dimensional characters who are black. If you give me a 2024 world that is lily white, you're not just 'anti woke' you're blind.

As for a lesbian Willow in high school, initially I was thinking, why rewrite something that works, but then I realized something. The world is different today. A lot of kids who knew they were LGBTQ or suspected they were LGBTQ 20 years ago and kept it to themselves, would come to school today knowing who they are and not feeling much shame and a lot less fear than people even 20 years ago. The world talks openly about things like gender identity and sexual orientation now.

I'm bisexual. I have always been. It took me decades to own this in so many words. I knew what I felt and who I was attracted to but because of the life i led and the fact I grew up in church, it never occurred to me to call myself the name bisexual in school even though I figured it out in high school. I came of age in a time before Buffy, but even in the late 90s, people were less open, and schools were still pretty strict about things like people openly identifying as gay. If I were growing up now, I think I would have consciously figured it out (at the latest) by the time I hit puberty, maybe earlier, because I had figured out my attraction to the opposite sex before that (crushes), and I probably would have been open about it because of the family that I grew up in (progressive). My (straight) dad was very outspoken in favour of gay rights long before any of his peers (he got grief for it). Anyway, I don't think the choice to create a lesbian Willow from the start of high school would be a 'woke' thing in 2024. I think it would be realistic. Particularly in a place like Southern California.
 
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Sorry I have to interject.

Woke fiction is NOT the same as diverse or even political fiction. Sorry but woke people don't get a monopoly on women or minorities as much as they'd love too.

Something like Red Dwarf or Xena for instance are NOT woke, because they have female, black and LGBT leading characters and just get on with it. Xena doesn't shit on men, Red Dwarf has never mentioned ONCE that half its cast most of the time is black. In all the feuds, bonding moments with Lister and Rimmer not once has it ever been brought up Lister is black, Rimmer is white.

Also whilst Xena is a very feminine character, that's not all she is. Xena and the other strong women of the show like Callisto and Alti and Gabrielle are fully rounded characters, and they aren't meant to represent women, because how could they? How do you represent 50 percent of humanity? It would be ridiculous to assume that Batman needs to talk about issues facing young men today because he is a man. Similarly let female characters be their own thing.

Woke fiction meanwhile, will never shut up about how great it is for having black people, LGBT people and women as leads, in the show itself. Never mind the insufferably smug writers on social media and actors, but in the show itself, they'll often mention it. Furthermore the men will be shat on for being men and the female and minority characters will have to represent every issue facing those groups even if they are aliens from outer space and will have very little personalities beyond those aspects. Really they're trophies for the writers ego.



Do NOT tell me you don't see a difference between those two series in how they tackle female characters. That's why Xena was a huge hit and Supergirl well inspired videos like the one above taking the absolute piss out of it.

Of course fair enough sometimes if you are setting something in the past, when racism and persecution were more common, and you want it to be authentic, then fair enough you may have to draw more overt attention to a character being black. Something like the Umbrella Academy that had a bisexual man and a black woman in 1960s America I think was a good example of doing this but not making it too preachy, but even then watch you don't make it too condescending.

Also there is a difference between a new character and gender flipping an old one. People don't like their favourite characters being changed in all kinds of ways, and yes sometimes that can include their gender and physical appearance, which absolutely applies in reverse. Imagine a white, blonde haired Blade? Even just physically that wouldn't seem like the character.

Meanwhile in terms of making something political, again there are ways of doing it that don't wind people up.

Look at ironically the original DW series. The first Dalek story is very political, but it follows the general rules for getting away with politics.

1/ It's story still holds up. Regardless of the politics the story builds up a spooky atmosphere, intriguing mystery, the Daleks themselves are fleshed out and interesting antagonists who have had a lot of thought put into them, and there is great world building and imagination.

2/ The politics is presented as a metaphor and therefore doesn't have to reference the current day and date itself

3/ The Daleks whilst inspired by WW2 tap into race hatred in general, as well as fascism, man's destructive effect on the environment and mindless conformity.

4/ It was a brave and bold move back in 1963 to tackle race hatred, never mind WW2

5/ It was presented in a natural way, IE part of the plot, the Daleks motivation, so when it was talked about it felt natural and not just a lecture.

Modern day woke politics meanwhile almost always fails in these respects. Ironically look at a Jodie Whittaker era Who story like Rosa. It has a paper thin plot, because the writer cares more about the politics than the sci fi. The villain has no motivation, no backstory, nothing to help him stand out. The actor is good sure, but he isn't given anything to work with. The story does reference modern day politics like Obama, which has already dated it as since it aired positive opinion of Obama, particularly among the left has dropped considerably. It also was not brave doing a story about how racism is bad in 2018. It was jumping on a bandwagon and had nothing original to say about Rosa Parks. (In fact it was a very shallow reading of her legacy.) Finally it wasn't even presented in a natural way. We literally had Jodie lecturing the audience at the end with video footage to back it up like a lecture!

Now Buffy IMO falls much more into Classic Who and Xena and Red Dwarf territory when it came to its politics and how it presented minorities and female characters, than it does modern day woke crap like Supergirl. Of course that's not to say that sometimes it didn't mess up, like Beer Bad being too on the nose politically. Even the greats **** up (personally I think Invasion of the Dinosaurs was an example of a terribly done political classic who story, whilst ironically Star Trek TOS I think ****ed up all the time when it came to overt politics like The Omega Glory that IS as badly done as something like Supergirl, only it's right wing politics.)

Still let's not conflate Buffy with the crap of today.

(That said I do agree that the backlash to woke shows has become so great, that sadly yes nowadays people are often quick to assume anything with a gay, or female lead will be woke. This hasn't been helped by guys like Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker who are a genuinely toxic influence on the genre and its fandom. Still if that has happened, well the people to blame are still the woke writers and producers who whipped everybody up into culture war crap.)
Well, that was one hell of an anti-woke rant right there. I'm glad you got that off your chest, but how is any of what you said related to my point about how Buffy the Vampire Slayer would be called woke if it had been created today, within the current political context?

Imagine it! Creator of the series proclaims openly that he is a male feminist! There are multiple females on the writing team! Lead character is a young woman with preternatural strength! She was gifted these incredible powers, so she never had to train to obtain them! Such a Mary Sue! The leading man is an awkward, goofy, somewhat sexist beta male who can't defend himself most of the time! He makes men look bad! There's so much focus put on a lesbian witch! Oh and she was not initially a lesbian, but they turned her gay midway through the show to please all the woke kids! So woke, so forced! Anya? A vengeance demon who spent hundred of years torturing and killing men, yet the writers keep apologizing for her, making jokes out of her history of murder and mayhem! Who cares about men, right? What's next? Did you notice how almost all of the men Buffy sleeps with turn bad? I guess all men are just terrible people.

This is just what I could come up with on the spot. I can't imagine the amount of quotes from the show that would be picked apart by anti-woke people to prove without a doubt how the show has a political agenda, that it wants to put men in a bad light... Watcher's Council, anyone? Caleb? And many more examples! Oh and there are so many "go girl!" moments. The sequence in 'Chosen' with all the girls? So cheesy and political. The woke enterprise is literally trying to force-feed us all of this crap! So much wokeness! It is awful!

You see what I mean? I've been around these circles for over a decade, I know all of their arguments, all of the ways they find to validate their wokephobia. The point is, Buffy the Vampire Slayer would easily be qualified as woke if it was released today. I don't know what else to tell you. If the day ever comes that the Buffyverse is brought back to life, you can bet that there will be a crowd of anti-woke people who start screaming about it.
 
No! Just No!
I'm so tired of Hollywood rebooting classic shows and movies because they got nothing left. No fresh ideas. I liked the original Night Court and the cast. Magnum Pi reboot? P.ease,pffft. Tom Selleck will always be Thomas Magnum and John Hillerman rest in peace will always be Higgins. SMG is Buffy.
 
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