Reboot canceled likely too woke?

Find it kind of funny that some people are claiming that Star Trek is too woke nowadays when the show, from the beginning, prided itself on being forward thinking. Just saying. ๐Ÿ˜ณ
 
I haven't seen the new Star Trek so I can't comment on that either way, but I know when *I* complain about something being too woke, it's because they didn't do any of the work to make the show well-crafted and just threw some diversity at it and pretended like that's all you need for a good show. I personally don't mind forward thinking, but you can't forget you're trying to make good tv/film too.

๐Ÿ™‚
 
Re; Slayers; I agree, New Sunnydale was a significant enough project that it got Slayers suspended. To compare; Lucasfilm suspended licensing of Original Trilogy Stuff during the production of the Prequel Trilogy. IMHO They wanted to prevent market segmentation, nothing more, nothing less. I doubt the last Doctor Who season was made to stop Big Finish from making episodes based on the Baker era, licensing doesn't work that way.

(I strongly suspect Slayers licensing wasn't entirely kosher, like Amber sweet talked someone into thinking this was just an Audiobook treatment for her fanfic or something, not an multiple part audio play, and Disney wanted more money and additional creative control for Season 2. But that's just my conjecture. Like, you can't just get a license to make Harry Potter greetings cards and use it print copies of Methods of Rationality.

At this time, Roche's argument comes as sounding like someone really wants to pin the series failure on Sarah.

Re: Savvik; Apparently K. Alley became really expensive between the two films, and Robin Curtis was cheaper. Which is basically also what brought down the Kelvin Films. Young up and coming actors becoming too busy and too expensive.
 
Re: Star Trek; Woke and progressive are two very different things. Mostly woke is shallow, bigoted and doesn't do any of the work to make fiction rich, entertaining, thought-provoking or, in fact, good quality.

The only time Star Trek was anything approaching woke was sometimes the first season of Next Gen had pompous moral lecturing which aged incredibly badly, even in comparison the the OS.
 
Re: Star Trek; Woke and progressive are two very different things. Mostly woke is shallow, bigoted and doesn't do any of the work to make fiction rich, entertaining, thought-provoking or, in fact, good quality.

The only time Star Trek was anything approaching woke was sometimes the first season of Next Gen had pompous moral lecturing which aged incredibly badly, even in comparison the the OS.

The male skirt uniform is kind of hilarious.
Regardless that was more a Roddenbury thing, same with the gimp uniforms, no disagreement between characters and Wesley worship.
Also given Roddenbury own treatment of others also including adding parts to a music score that he didn't use, simply to avoid paying the creator of the score anymore, pure hypocrisy
 
I consider woke to be preachy without the writing to back it up along with characters that arenโ€™t layered in the name of always being correct.

The original Buffy had something to say but it wasnโ€™t preachy they let the story speak for itself, they also let their characters be wrong.
 
Maybe they want to put out an AI version where these pesky actors aren't going to get in the way of the vision the execs have.
 
Original Buffy would have been classed as woke, by some, when it aired. I doubt it was the issue.
I think this is the main issue here.
Despite some goods attempts at definitions about what woke is in this very thread, "woke" remains a word with a very murky and subjective meaning whose only common elements are something being both progressive and superficially argued.

So, in the end, it can be used to disregard virtually anything, including Whedon's Buffy, which, btw, has some preachy elements on it, specially during 7th Season, that I confess I like.

That's why I distrust arguments based on something being "woke" by default.
 
Dictionary.com definitions of the word: WOKE Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
Honestly, these seemly accepted definitions of the term confirms my impression about its ambivalence.

In pop culture, I perceive that the word is also associated with claims about social injustice as a poor excuse for bad writing, but again, this is something very subjective, and too often is used as an euphemism that pretend to hide far right positions.

Sometimes that's not the case, but I have to confess I don't like the connotation the word has nowdays. For me, it's become tiresome arguing when the "woke" word makes its appareance in any debate.

I don't want to be controversial, honest.

But I have to say it: I'm utterly tired of the "woke" word in discussions.
 
Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
Iโ€™m tired of it too lol
Check this out!

This is one of many ragebait/clickbait websites that put out articles constantly. They will pick a single line said by someone somewhere and try to create outrage out of it. Even if people disagree with the article, they will click on the link and read it. So it's win-win for the people behind those websites.

My suggestion is to avoid all of those. Waste of time.

Now the definition of woke has been expanded to "anything I don't like", it makes sense ๐Ÿ˜‚.

Bit of a stretch from a couple of lines but this will give people stuff to write and speculate about for a while.
Pretty much spot on, my dude. ๐Ÿคฃ

John Rocha really goes to town on Gellar over the script
Ok. @#ยฃ% THIS. Sarah Michelle Gellar's people and maybe even HULU are trying to throw Chloe Zhao under the bus over Buffy. Nope. Not letting this happen to an INCREDIBLY TALENTED woman of color. I was gonna stay quiet with the other stuff I'd heard, but nah. Let's do this.

Since my post 48 hours ago, I've had sources tell me that:
- Gellar was the issue from the beginning
- this was just an "IP grab" to stop that SLAYERS project from proceeding (which my sources had heard from a person involved with the original series)
- Gellar wasn't terribly interested in rebooting the series (which was why her role was very limited, but was going to be more than one line)
- Gellar had intentionally courted a creative who had a mixed history as a showrunner, but was a knownโ€œfan,โ€ so that it would easily fall on her as the reason for the seriesโ€™ failure.
- that there was "a lot of love bombing from SMG to Chloe Zhao" before this latest excuse was put out there blaming Zhao and throwing her under the bus
- Gellar constantly shouted down or cut off execs and production people who were trying to fix the issues with the show
- One even said that what Gellar wanted to make changes to the Buffy character and the established canon of the series that would "piss off 90%
of the fanbase"

And now it just came out from @THR that Gellar doesn't want you reading the script that is being leaked. No surprise. It would show all the mistakes she approved of that were going to wreck the show and the canon.

Btw these are sources I trust and who have given me correct info in the past. Some of y'all might have to put down your rose colored fan glasses and put on some clear ones.
This guy sounds like he has an axe to grind, as others have said. He's not the only one, though, jesus. You seem to have an axe to grind against SMG too.

Most of these points make no sense. At least, for anyone who isn't hardcore looking for reasons to see SMG as the worst person the planet.

The only part I can believe is that SMG was loud when it came to giving her opinion on how Buffy should be portrayed. She always cared a lot about the character and DID get into arguments with Joss back then.

She tried to do a Cruel Intentions show too that also flopped. Contrary to what's on Buffy fan boards she's not a huge mega star. She's primarily known for Buffy.

Like it or not if the pay cheque is big enough that person will agree. Assaid she wasn't going to be in it very much just a reoccurring role.

Buffy was a job from 20 years ago. Yes Buffy is a show people love on here but to her and the cast it was always just work
She worked really long hours on it with a boss she had a very rocky relationship with. I can see why she wouldn't love it.
I mean how many people on here still love there 20 year old jobs ?

Let's be frank the only reason she's asking people not to read the script is because she knows it's not very good.
She says it will be different from the final product, true but not that different. The Welcome to the Hellmouth with the different Willow is different to the aired version but not by a huge amount. You can watch it on YouTube and see
SMG was indeed a big star (in the 90s), but she isn't anymore. She's mostly remembered for Buffy now.

Speaking about work as if you can't be proud of it or care about it down the road is a little strange. Plenty of the actors on both shows have expressed many times that the shows meant a lot to them. Making art is more than just a random job. It can have a very long lasting effect. Including on the actors, directors, writers, and everyone involved on a project. Christopher Lee spent his last day on this planet rewatching the LoTR movies he worked on because they were so dear to his heart and he was proud of what he had been part of.

All of that to say, SMG always loved Buffy. Her issues were with Joss.
 
The male skirt uniform is kind of hilarious.
Regardless that was more a Roddenbury thing, same with the gimp uniforms, no disagreement between characters and Wesley worship.
Also given Roddenbury own treatment of others also including adding parts to a music score that he didn't use, simply to avoid paying the creator of the score anymore, pure hypocrisy

There were other weird things regarding Roddenbury, he initially wanted dolphins/whales onboard the ship as part of navigation system, um yeah okay. Getting a therapist sitting next to the captain was bad enough.
Also he was a massive sexist, hence why Denise Crosby left early in the second season.
Still a flawed progressive with a vision of an idealistic future is better than the woke slop that has been churned out over much the past decade.

I do find it telling that people of a certain political slant still dismiss wokeness as 'vague' or define it as things a certain subgroup doesn't like even with the abundance of evidence and examples of well worn tropes that have damaged IP after IP. Shallow Identitarianism, writers narcissism, bigoted race politics, girlbosses and misandry. The era- when it finally comes to a close- will be instantly recognizable.
I mean, it already feels incredibly dated as of 2026 but I guess we'll have to wait a few more years for those in denial to become a bit more clear-eyed...
 
Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
I was on a plane with Denise Crosby once :D
B
Btvs fan
It was the first season DC left
SMG was indeed a big star (in the 90s), but she isn't anymore. She's mostly remembered for Buffy now.
Her career actually peaked in the early 2000s when the Scooby Doo movies came out. They were massive hits at the time and some people who are around 30 now were first introduced to her through Scooby Doo when they were kids. So I would say she is also remembered for Scooby Doo. ๐Ÿ™‚

But it's true that her movie career never lived up to it's full potential. Back in the days we didn't get how Reese could win an Oscar and Sarah didn't, considering that when you watched them together in Cruel Intention Sarah was clearly the star of that movie. I think the reason her career didn't reach the heights of some of her contemporary co-stars did was because she changed agency after The Grudge (2004). Also she made some bad career choices with movies. Southland Tales may have sounded like a good idea as it got a Cannes release and all. But the movie is so bad it's almost unwatchable. I think she signed on to that movie without reading the script! ๐Ÿ™
 
There were other weird things regarding Roddenbury, he initially wanted dolphins/whales onboard the ship as part of navigation system, um yeah okay. Getting a therapist sitting next to the captain was bad enough.
Also he was a massive sexist, hence why Denise Crosby left early in the second season.
Still a flawed progressive with a vision of an idealistic future is better than the woke slop that has been churned out over much the past decade.

I do find it telling that people of a certain political slant still dismiss wokeness as 'vague' or define it as things a certain subgroup doesn't like even with the abundance of evidence and examples of well worn tropes that have damaged IP after IP. Shallow Identitarianism, writers narcissism, bigoted race politics, girlbosses and misandry. The era- when it finally comes to a close- will be instantly recognizable.
I mean, it already feels incredibly dated as of 2026 but I guess we'll have to wait a few more years for those in denial to become a bit more clear-eyed...

Patrick Stewart has said The Measure of a Man (in S2) was the first decent episode the show did.

The Chaos on the Bridge documentary is fascinating...
 
Patrick Stewart has said The Measure of a Man (in S2) was the first decent episode the show did.

The Chaos on the Bridge documentary is fascinating...

I seriously doubt the series would have made it past S1 today, without a two season contract out of the gate. S2 was much better, with things like Q Who.

We will pretend Shades of Grey doesn't exist...
 
I seriously doubt the series would have made it past S1 today, without a two season contract out of the gate. S2 was much better, with things like Q Who.

We will pretend Shades of Grey doesn't exist...

Yeah literally a clip episode ๐Ÿ˜„
The Child was a pretty awful episode as well.
What's your thoughts on Pulaski ?
The writers strike didn't help
 
Yeah literally a clip episode ๐Ÿ˜„
The Child was a pretty awful episode as well.
What's your thoughts on Pulaski ?
The writers strike didn't help

On the plus side, Shades of Grey is apparently why Star Trek never did another clip episode. So, pluses and minuses. I heard the reason for it was that Q Who blew most of the budget leaving almost nothing left for the last episode. They would have been better off just blowing the money on a party for the cast and crew and making the season one episode shorter!

I was not a fan of Pulaski; she was abrasive in ways that didn't fit well. Admittedly, I also... like Dr Crusher. ๐Ÿ˜€
 
Star Trek was in a position to coast on its name and a very loyal fanbase for a while, hence S1 and 2 being very patchy.

Plus, y'know, ST: Voyager somehow getting 7 goddamn seasons and Enterprise only getting cancelled after 3 dire seasons (Season 4 was actually alright)

Those days are long gone, the news just dropped that Star Fleet Academy has been cancelled, meaning that the already filmed S2 will (probably) be the last Trek for a while.
 
This article is rage bait.

Chaos on the Bridge is great, it's free with Ads on YouTube. However, it's one of those talking heads documentaries where the Blu-ray probably has an extra twenty hours of interview footage, or at least you hope it does.

Yes, NextGen was in the shadow of four very successful TOS films, nearly twenty years of syndication success and a united fandom. Discovery just showed up one day.
 
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