Ideal Couples in btvs/atvs

[Wildfly]

I am curious what you guys think
About atvs/btvs couples, which one was the best in regard of forming a relationship that was supportive and in general made the person(s) in it better?

For example I was wondering how Oz would have dealt with willow's 'magic addiction', how, (if their relationship continued) would it shaped them. I think pragmatic Oz could get through Willow where Tara couldn't thus preventing some overuse of magic.

There was also Cordelia and Angel. .. i think she was really good for him.

 

[vellavu]

Oz had always been even more passive than Tara ever did. I don't think he would make a difference.

If the Jasmine plot never happened, Cordy and Angel would develop some healthy stuff.
But what would (the living of Lilah + full functional LA W&H) imply? Will Lilah kill Cordy, Fred, Wesley one by one if W&H was not destroyed by the beast? Too complicated I don't know...

 

[thetopher]

I think Oz/Willow was better for Willow than Willow/Tara. That's nothing against Tara but Oz had this 'inner core' of cool that always grounded Willow and her insecurities, Tara didn't have that. Tara had a kindness of her own but also her own insecurities when it came to Willow and their relationship. I always wonder if Oz might've been able to handle Willow's development/transformation a bit better- at least until he got shot in SR (which is what would've happened according to Joss)
Obviously Tara benefitted greatly from Willow in terms of bringing her out of her shell.

I'm neutral when it comes to Xander/Anya. I think he helped her simply because he was a reason to invest in humanity again. A place to belong where she could attempt to grow. With Xander maybe being in a relationship with Anya helped his confidence- but nothing else really.

With Buffy it was Riley. Riley made her happy/content without all the drama and pain. And Buffy managed fine in terms of slaying for a lot of S4 and 5. It's also worthy noting that Riley never saw Buffy as any sort of 'salvation' for him, she was simply his first love who he managed to move on from, whilst still viewing her with lots of affection and positivity.
In turn Buffy taught Riley to think for himself more, to have the confidence that he could survive outside of the Initiative. It's a shame that the lesson didn't take because of his insecurities about the two of them but still, that's mostly on him.
To be honest when I think of 'best for Buffy' in terms of the balance of being supportive but also making them better I always think of her friends more than her love interests.

The same with Angel as well. Whilst I agree that Cangel could've been great, the execution was mishandled and in the end it felt like a friendship had been lost with nothing to gain from it. Also when I think of supporting relationships for Angel I think of Doyle (Cordelia again) and Faith. Not much need for romance.
But...maybe Darla. I think Angel and (human) Darla could've had a good thing (even though she was going to die)- they'd been through so much together. She damned him and he tried and failed to be her salvation (and his own in the process) there's a nice symmetry there.

 

[Wildfly]

I'm neutral when it comes to Xander/Anya. I think he helped her simply because he was a reason to invest in humanity again. A place to belong where she could attempt to grow. With Xander maybe being in a relationship with Anya helped his confidence- but nothing else really.

With Buffy it was Riley. Riley made her happy/content without all the drama and pain. And Buffy managed fine in terms of slaying for a lot of S4 and 5. It's also worthy noting that Riley never saw Buffy as any sort of 'salvation' for him, she was simply his first love who he managed to move on from, whilst still viewing her with lots of affection and positivity.
In turn Buffy taught Riley to think for himself more, to have the confidence that he could survive outside of the Initiative. It's a shame that the lesson didn't take because of his insecurities about the two of them but still, that's mostly on him.
To be honest when I think of 'best for Buffy' in terms of the balance of being supportive but also making them better I always think of her friends more than her love interests.

The same with Angel as well. Whilst I agree that Cangel could've been great, the execution was mishandled and in the end it felt like a friendship had been lost with nothing to gain from it. Also when I think of supporting relationships for Angel I think of Doyle (Cordelia again) and Faith. Not much need for romance.
But...maybe Darla. I think Angel and (human) Darla could've had a good thing (even though she was going to die)- they'd been through so much together. She damned him and he tried and failed to be her salvation (and his own in the process) there's a nice symmetry there.

I always wondered about Xander's relationships. They don't seem real to me. He was never that invested either with cordy or anya as he was with the scoobies. With anya he was pretty passive, just went along with her choices.

Have no idea about him with Dawn - i still need to read the comics.

 

[EVIL UU]

Spike and Drusilla were kinda perfect for each other. Obviously, Dru was crazy and Spike was...well, Spike but they made it work, for more than a 100 years in fact.

 

[Samuel Reyes]

Cordy and Angel: Far healthier than Buffy and Angel, and they had already built a friendship on top of that, providing a level of comfort that Bangel didn't.

Giles and Jenny: But naturally Whedon has a way of ruining these things...

Xander and Anya: I think they were right for each other. (Plus their after-sex talks were always so insightful, goes to show you how in sync they were)

For Willow, I think both Oz and Tara suited her just fine, but as @thetopher pointed out, Oz could probably get to Willow in some ways Tara wouldn't, such as possibly grounding her during the whole 'magic addiction' phase.

Buffy: Riley was healthiest, but I like her with Spike the best.

 

[vellavu]

Buffy: Riley was healthiest, but I like her with Spike the best.

Male characters having potential to be Buffy's lover who are not A/S:

Owen
Parker
Riley
Xander
Dowling
Koh

I think Riley is the second worst, only better than Parker.

 

[Samuel Reyes]

Male characters having potential to be Buffy's lover who are not A/S:

Owen
Parker
Riley
Xander
Dowling
Koh

I think Riley is the second worst, only better than Parker.

Yeah, Parker was terrible. And for all the flak Riley gets, keep in mind that he at least tried. But ultimately he was just "the guy after Angel."

 

[bespangeled]

Spike/Angel - yes it's canon whether 'been intimate that one..." meant 'time, week, or year we were in Moscow'. I think Spike was talking about Angel and himself when he said "You'll fight and you'll shag and you'll hate it each other til it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends." Keep in mind you're talking about over a century of being part of each others lives. On the submarine - I really enjoy watching Angel manhandling Spike, but also protecting him - the same way he kept Buffy from staking him. When the W&H fail-safe is going to do something bad - Angel says he won't take anyone he cares about - Spike immediately volunteers and Angel quickly accepts.

They are not a romantic couple but they know each other, and long after everyone is dead an buried they will still be together in some form (not a comic reader). The part we saw of them together is about 2 years. In that short time period Angel dusted Darla, dusted Penn, and then set Darla and Dru on fire. Spike fell in love with Angel's true love and then went and fought to get a soul. So I say Angel and Spike - it's not traditionally supportive but then they are vampires and supportive wouldn't mean the same things to them.

 

[Wildfly]

Spike/Angel - yes it's canon whether 'been intimate that one..." meant 'time, week, or year we were in Moscow'. I think Spike was talking about Angel and himself when he said "You'll fight and you'll shag and you'll hate it each other til it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends." Keep in mind you're talking about over a century of being part of each others lives. On the submarine - I really enjoy watching Angel manhandling Spike, but also protecting him - the same way he kept Buffy from staking him. When the W&H fail-safe is going to do something bad - Angel says he won't take anyone he cares about - Spike immediately volunteers and Angel quickly accepts.

They are not a romantic couple but they know each other, and long after everyone is dead an buried they will still be together in some form (not a comic reader).

Which is kinda sad. That's why the master was probably right, sitting in his ass underground, not mingling with humans. well, besides being evil and not interested in them.

The part we saw of them together is about 2 years. In that short time period Angel dusted Darla, dusted Penn, and then set Darla and Dru on fire.

I still cant believe he did it. Here goes my theory that the Whirlwind is the evil version of the scooby family thing.
i got it when Angel dusted Darla when she went after Buffy or when Spike wanted to kill Dru to impress Buffy, thinking that Buffy was the exception they'd kill for their own.
But burning Dru and Darla just like that? Angel is full of surprises.

And yes, the Angel - Spike dynamics was the best thing in season 5.
probably it was the best thing in ATVS.

 

[bespangeled]

i got it when Angel dusted Darla when she went after Buffy or when Spike wanted to kill Dru to impress Buffy,

This is where I see Spike just not getting it - Angel dusted Darla and Buffy loved him. So if Spike dusts Dru it means Buffy will love him. Because as much as he can't stand the brooding ponce, he also can't seem to find any path that isn't following Angel.
 

But burning Dru and Darla just like that? Angel is full of surprises.

I love that scene - where Darla asks, who is that? That is one of my favorite incarnations of Angel.

And yes, the Angel - Spike dynamics was the best thing in season 5.
probably it was the best thing in ATVS.

You have such fantastic taste ! 😀

 

[Blaze]

My first thought was Tara/Willow, they had their problems but they always worked through those. I think s4-5 they were both really good for each other and brought a lot of growth for each other. S6 was a bit of an abusive mess with the magic, but in the end, an addiction can only be changed by the user. Sure, supports helps, but someone only changes when they want to change themselves, that is a journey only Willow could take. And in the end, it's only by bettering herself that Willow could change her behavior and make it work with Tara. I don't think having Oz there would have changed anything. In s6, magic was portrayed as an addiction, and no amount of love or support could change the fact that Willow had been on this path as early as s2-3. That is without saying that Willow was already dealing with some sign of magic abuse in s4, some of which was in relation to Oz (not that it was Oz's fault at all, but Willow would have abused magic at some point or another, as soon as issues arose in her relationship. That is something she does both with Tara and Oz, which to me shows that the partner really didn't matter, it was always about the magic). That being said, as far as highschool years, Woz was pretty great.

I would also say Willow and Kennedy was a great ship. Say whatever you want, but Willow was good for Kennedy, and more importantly, Kennedy was good for Willow. Most people hate Kennedy, but no one can deny that she was a good girlfriend (I dare anyone to try and make a good argument against this).

From what I've seen from s7 and s8, I liked Xander and Dawn and pretty much think they make a great couple, although I haven't read the comics far enough to see where this goes.

The Fanged Four is pretty much vampire goal as far as relationships goes.

Gunn and Fred were good at the beginning. As were Angel and Cordy.

Giles and Jenny is another good one.

For the most part, I think Buffy doesn't make good choices in relationship, her best relationship was with Riley and even that was a mess. As for Xander, I didn't really see any major character growth related to his relationship, and by s6, he basically hasn't matured enough to even be in a good relationship (I don't really blame him considering he's only 21).

 

[thetopher]

I would also say Willow and Kennedy was a great ship. Say whatever you want, but Willow was good for Kennedy, and more importantly, Kennedy was good for Willow. Most people hate Kennedy, but no one can deny that she was a good girlfriend (I dare anyone to try and make a good argument against this).

I think Kennedy was a good girlfriend in the comics but not in S7. I found a lot of her interactions with Willow obnoxious. (sorry)
From the 'I don't give a crap about this thing that's important to you (magic)...but if you like it then I'll guess I'll tolerate it so I can get to make out with you...' to 'Ooh, Dark Willow sounds sexy' and 'my voice should be heard just because I'm dating one of the main characters!'

Just comparing that first one to how supportive Oz was of Willow's magic and the insecurities that came with it, or Tara for that matter, and I could argue that Kennedy wasn't really good for Willow at all.
Maybe in those last two episodes, but then again I'm not sure. One of her friends could've given Willow that same confidence boost (well, not exactly the same obviously) to cope with all the pressure.

 

[Blaze]

I think Kennedy was a good girlfriend in the comics but not in S7. I found a lot of her interactions with Willow obnoxious. (sorry)
From the 'I don't give a crap about this thing that's important to you (magic)...but if you like it then I'll guess I'll tolerate it so I can get to make out with you...' to 'Ooh, Dark Willow sounds sexy' and 'my voice should be heard just because I'm dating one of the main characters!'

Just because her interactions were obnoxious doesn't mean she was not a good girlfriend. What one person find obnoxious is not necessarily what someone else find obnoxious, and just because she's annoying to some does not mean she was annoying to Willow. On the show, Willow has never expressed that she felt Kennedy was unpleasant with her, so I just don't see that.

From my point of view, that's not really how Kennedy put it. It was more like "I don't care for magic, but you do so that's okay with me". When you date someone you won't always have the same hobbies, or the same passions in life, I don't expect my partner to be into science. As long as they are respectful of what I like. I don't think Kennedy was just tolerating magic, I think she showed she was supportive of it. I never got the impression that Kennedy wanted to be heard *because* she was dating Willow. I always got the impression she wanted to be heard because Kennedy has that leadership quality to her, even though she can be a brat in her way of approaching things. I won't deny Kennedy and Willow are really different, and I don't think Kennedy really grasped what the whole magic thing was about, but I always found her to be supportive of Willow.

Sure, a friend could have filled in those shows, but still, Kennedy was Will's girlfriend I just don't see where she lacked support.

 

[thetopher]

Just because her interactions were obnoxious doesn't mean she was not a good girlfriend. What one person find obnoxious is not necessarily what someone else find obnoxious, and just because she's annoying to some does not mean she was annoying to Willow. On the show, Willow has never expressed that she felt Kennedy was unpleasant with her, so I just don't see that.

Oh, I thought you were comparing the 'ships and saying that Kennedy was the most supportive. . Unfortunately Willow is a bit of doormat this season and doesn't really stand up for herself that much. I guess I'm offended/protective on her behalf.

From my point of view, that's not really how Kennedy put it. It was more like "I don't care for magic, but you do so that's okay with me". When you date someone you won't always have the same hobbies, or the same passions in life, I don't expect my partner to be into science. As long as they are respectful of what I like. I don't think Kennedy was just tolerating magic, I think she showed she was supportive of it.

I beleive Kennedy uses the term 'fairytale crap' which is not respectful at all to Willow or something that has been intergral to her personality since high school.

I never got the impression that Kennedy wanted to be heard *because* she was dating Willow. I always got the impression she wanted to be heard because Kennedy has that leadership quality to her, even though she can be a brat in her way of approaching things.

I never got 'leadership quality' from her because she didn't really contribute any good ideas or help Willow contribute good ideas. For example, in 'Get It Done' when everyone is freaking about the Buffy/Demon exchange, Willow panics because magic is gonna have to be used and so she freezes up.
It's Dawn that manages to reason through the problem; 'Okay Willow, what would a witch do'. One of the many little great Dawn moments that season. Actual support.
Meanwhile Kennedy is basically saying 'Willow, you're the most powerful girl in this room, are you going to let Buffy speak to me that way?'
Anyway, MVYV I guess.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Going back to ideal couples, has anyone mentioned Riley and Sam? Nice guy, nice girl. Common interests and employed in a way that lets them exploit these interests. We don't need to be fixated on major characters because their ships sink in the Buffyverse. Of course one of them may be a casualty at some point in the future but for now, all is well.

 

[vellavu]

Going back to ideal couples, has anyone mentioned Riley and Sam? Nice guy, nice girl. Common interests and employed in a way that lets them exploit these interests. We don't need to be fixated on major characters because their ships sink in the Buffyverse. Of course one of them may be a casualty at some point in the future but for now, all is well.

Sam was very suspicious. If she became the big bad of S11 I won't be surprised at all.

She's unreal. Even less realistic than the perfect parents for Xander in "I Wish". In "As You Were", she said exactly what each of the Scoobies wanted to hear. Was that intuitive for her? Or did she do her homework investigating them then practicing what to say? And I don't know which possibility is creepier.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I still say Riley and Sam are great together - the family that slays together stays together.

 

[GoSpuffy]

And yes, the Angel - Spike dynamics was the best thing in season 5.
probably it was the best thing in ATVS.

I wanted a season 6 of AtS so bad, just to keep watching Angel and Spike. If it had been anything like season 6 on BtVS, well need I say more?
 

Going back to ideal couples, has anyone mentioned Riley and Sam? Nice guy, nice girl. Common interests and employed in a way that lets them exploit these interests. We don't need to be fixated on major characters because their ships sink in the Buffyverse. Of course one of them may be a casualty at some point in the future but for now, all is well.

I like Riley and Sam and think they make a great couple.

 

[cryptwarmer]

Forest and Grahm.