That's a really good point. Before slaying Buffy was meant to be a mean girl, and she wouldn't have been happy to babysit a little sister. Dawn and Buffy didn't have a great relationship when we first saw them, and Buffy was more grown-up then, so I bet they could have really disliked each other prior to moving to Sunnydale. Buffy always seemed jealous of how close Dawn was to Joyce, and I bet that put strain on their relationship too.
Did anyone else hate Dawn in this season?
- Thread starter Mohammad Khawar
- Start date
That's a really good point. Before slaying Buffy was meant to be a mean girl, and she wouldn't have been happy to babysit a little sister. Dawn and Buffy didn't have a great relationship when we first saw them, and Buffy was more grown-up then, so I bet they could have really disliked each other prior to moving to Sunnydale. Buffy always seemed jealous of how close Dawn was to Joyce, and I bet that put strain on their relationship too.
ChaseRules
When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2012
- Messages
- 8,239
Agreed . Plus Dawn had to put up with being moved to Sunnydale because of Buffy plus what with Buffy sneaking around plus Buffy running away at the end of S2 it no wonder Dawn was messed up like she was . And having lost her mother the one person who was there for her too.
I'm watching season 5 right now. Totally agree with you. To get thru the season I ff a lot thru all Dawn's scenes. Every time she opens her mouth I just want somebody to shut her up.
I don't know any teenagers like that at all and if they all are , there is something really wrong with our society.
What did she do that was so "un-teenager" like? Was it the meltdowns when she found out most of her life was a lie? Or her stupid crushes on her sister's friends? Or maybe it was her being willing to sacrifice herself at 14-15 to save the world. Wait scratch that, the last one is definitely not something most teenagers would do. But the first two, definitely teenager behavior. I think I had more meltdowns than Dawn at that age, and from what I know I turned out fine. I feel like people forget what teenagers are like. Or they think they were better than Dawn when they were teenagers, when in reality, most people that age are immature. And I don't see that as a bad thing, let young people be young. This was a much better portrayal of a teen than what is shown on 90% of TV.
Fool for Buffy
Yeah teenagers are whiny brats. Personally tho I'm a mature whiny brat.
thrasherpix
Scooby
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 5,314
- Age
- 43
There's many ways to be immature. I can go on and on about the stupid stuff I and other kids did, some of it a lot worse than Dawn. But I didn't know any kids like Dawn...at least not obviously so (since I wouldn't see it if they do it at home).
I even hung around my older cousin's friends but didn't consider them the same way I considered friends my own age to be. I didn't expect the same thing of them as Dawn did, and those older kids weren't even adults. In retrospect, I'm surprised they let me hang around them at all (even if I did publicly troll the most popular preacher in town while he was giving his sermon, and then told him off right after when he intercepted me after the service, which is apparently why they wanted to meet me in the first place).
I don't mean to say Dawn is unbelievable as a teen (hell, I've met ADULTS like her who I assume were that way, if not worse, as a teen), just that I can believe someone never was immature the same way Dawn was (but rather immature in a different way) or met anyone like her (as far as they know).
I even hung around my older cousin's friends but didn't consider them the same way I considered friends my own age to be. I didn't expect the same thing of them as Dawn did, and those older kids weren't even adults. In retrospect, I'm surprised they let me hang around them at all (even if I did publicly troll the most popular preacher in town while he was giving his sermon, and then told him off right after when he intercepted me after the service, which is apparently why they wanted to meet me in the first place).
I don't mean to say Dawn is unbelievable as a teen (hell, I've met ADULTS like her who I assume were that way, if not worse, as a teen), just that I can believe someone never was immature the same way Dawn was (but rather immature in a different way) or met anyone like her (as far as they know).
W
WillowFromBuffy
Guest
I hate the word brat. Whenever I see someone using, I know I am going to disagree with them.
Dawn gets attacked and threatened by Buffy, kidnapped numerous times, finds out she is not real, her mum dies, her older sister is incapable of providing her the emotional support she needs, then she is taken by cultists to be bled in a ritual to open Hell and her sister died. Dawn is amazing. She is even better in S6. MT may be the best actor on the entire show.
Dawn gets attacked and threatened by Buffy, kidnapped numerous times, finds out she is not real, her mum dies, her older sister is incapable of providing her the emotional support she needs, then she is taken by cultists to be bled in a ritual to open Hell and her sister died. Dawn is amazing. She is even better in S6. MT may be the best actor on the entire show.
Dawn has memories of Buffy as a slayer. She knows what's out there and she slips out of her house in the middle of the night? That's beyond stupid at any age. She puts Buffy and her friends in danger, she has no regards for their safety and feelings at all. I'm not going to give her points for volunteering to sacrifice herself. Billions of people were in danger because of her. I don't understand why her fake life was worth more than any real human beings. She should have been destroyed by the monks, or later by Buffy. Enough people died because of her already.
Mylie
Scooby
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 2,098
- Age
- 38
She puts Buffy and her friends in danger, she has no regards for their safety and feelings at all.
At first Dawn isn't even aware that she's the key, and when she learns about it she realizes what her existence means for the people around her and the rest of the world. She's a teenager and allowed to make mistakes and grow. All of the scoobies did stupid shit in the early seasons. It's now more noticeable with Dawn because she's the youngest when all the other characters have been allowed to mature.
Also, she does feel a lot of guilt about her own existence and is very grateful that Buffy is protecting her.
I'm not going to give her points for volunteering to sacrifice herself. Billions of people were in danger because of her.
I don't get this. Dawn felt very much how serious this whole thing was and was willing to sacrifice her life to save the world just like Buffy was in Prophecy Girl. I know people tend to get mad because she suddenly joined the show and all the memories attached to that character are fake, but Dawn is still a real teenage girl, willing to sacrifice herself in the end. She didn't ask to be made, what's happening isn't her fault.
I'm not going to argue that the monks should have destroyed the key, because it was stupid to make the key into an actual human being to begin with. But Dawn, the character, was made into a human being and I think she should be regarded as such just like any other character on the show. Her being willing to sacrifice her life to save the world should count for something, in my opinion.
How can you blame Dawn for something she had no control over? No one died because of her, they died because of the monks.
They died because of Glory.
Normal 14-year old Teenager spent 24/7 to consider, doubt and talk with their BFF, if the ohter sex will ever find them attractive, if tey find the other sex attractive and if the boyband-singer whith the multi-platinum-selling CD will ever requite their eternal love. And if those pimples are a sign of near death. All of that is completely okay. You expect Teenagers to behave like that.
Dawn was doubting, if she was even human, if she was good, if she was a danger for other people and if her sister - the last family member that was left - would come back from patrol tonight.
I think, she did great. What would you have done in her situation ?
flow
Normal 14-year old Teenager spent 24/7 to consider, doubt and talk with their BFF, if the ohter sex will ever find them attractive, if tey find the other sex attractive and if the boyband-singer whith the multi-platinum-selling CD will ever requite their eternal love. And if those pimples are a sign of near death. All of that is completely okay. You expect Teenagers to behave like that.
Dawn was doubting, if she was even human, if she was good, if she was a danger for other people and if her sister - the last family member that was left - would come back from patrol tonight.
I think, she did great. What would you have done in her situation ?
flow
MarieVampSlayer
Bloody hell, Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers..
The same for me. I didn't like Dawn until season 7 so yeah she was overly annoying in S5!
FaithLehane16
Aside from Connor, I totally agree with you.
PaulParmar1
Spuffy Forever
I love Dawn! She's so much fun in this season imo. No I don't hate her. I think she goes through a lot in Season 5.
She loses her mother, she finds out she's the key. Her sister dies at the end of S5.
Put yourself in dawns shoes.
She loses her mother, she finds out she's the key. Her sister dies at the end of S5.
Put yourself in dawns shoes.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
I like Dawn a lot.
Actually, considering she is a plot device shoe-horned into the show (in a fairly nonsensical way) there is no reason I should like her as much as I should this season.
I think she gives a fresh perspective to the existing characters, which is fun; she thinks Willow is super-cool! She thinks Xander is hot! She thinks Giles is 'pretty far gone'; she dislikes Anya! (so that's 4 for 4?)
Basically she is a teen and through her perspective- to me- the other characters seem that much more grown up this season.
Her annoying scenes this season are few and are usually sympathetic; she finds out she's some Key and most of her life has been made up, she loses her Mom, she gets hunted and captured and others get hurt because of her and she feels bad.
She has good reasons for acting like she does.
Actually, considering she is a plot device shoe-horned into the show (in a fairly nonsensical way) there is no reason I should like her as much as I should this season.
I think she gives a fresh perspective to the existing characters, which is fun; she thinks Willow is super-cool! She thinks Xander is hot! She thinks Giles is 'pretty far gone'; she dislikes Anya! (so that's 4 for 4?)
Basically she is a teen and through her perspective- to me- the other characters seem that much more grown up this season.
Her annoying scenes this season are few and are usually sympathetic; she finds out she's some Key and most of her life has been made up, she loses her Mom, she gets hunted and captured and others get hurt because of her and she feels bad.
She has good reasons for acting like she does.
DeadlyDuo
Scooby
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2016
- Messages
- 9,611
- Age
- 35
I think the problem with Dawn is that she was a new character that was suddenly sooooooooooooooooo important to the scoobies. There was a disconnect between what the audience was being told to feel and what they were actually feeling. Had Buffy ended at Season 5, then I think it would be considered the worst season of the show due to the fact that Dawn's inclusion was so central to the plot and that the beloved main character died for her because she was suddenly soooooooooooo important to Buffy.
Also Dawn's personality also made the disconnect apparent. I know Joss was taking a swipe at the way shows suddenly introduce a family member that has neve been seen of, heard of, or spoken about before, but Dawn's personality doesn't really lend itself to that. Had she been more quiet, introverted, the type that stayed in her room a lot, then you could maybe play with the idea that maybe she was there all along in the first 4 seasons but the focus was always on Buffy hence why she never showed up. Season 5 Dawn wouldn't not be about.
Also Dawn's personality also made the disconnect apparent. I know Joss was taking a swipe at the way shows suddenly introduce a family member that has neve been seen of, heard of, or spoken about before, but Dawn's personality doesn't really lend itself to that. Had she been more quiet, introverted, the type that stayed in her room a lot, then you could maybe play with the idea that maybe she was there all along in the first 4 seasons but the focus was always on Buffy hence why she never showed up. Season 5 Dawn wouldn't not be about.
DagonSphere
Potential
I never had a problem with Dawn. I was around Michelle Trachtenberg's age when she was cast on the show (I am a year younger), I have an older sister. I could immediately relate to her and the sibling dynamic between Buffy and her. Additionally, I think the writing for her in her introductory season was very good in making us feel what she goes through. I think only in season six she bothered me, because that was a season in which her issues of abandonment and loneliness weren't as well explored.
Mr Trick
Scooby
I found her annoying in isolated moments, but it was never so much that I gave up on the character. Because of the context of the character and the growth she shows later on then its not a massive problem. MT is the main reason the character is so watchable during that early spell.
Ethan Reigns
Scooby
I like Dawn. A lot of people are on her case because she tells them "Get out, get out, get out!" after she finds out they have been lying to her all along and Spike is the one who finds out for her and is the only person who is straight with her. We see this after Buffy is resurrected and Spike is the only person Buffy can talk to. So what does she have to deal with?
She is not real
None of her memories are real
Her father abandoned her
Everyone but Spike is lying to her
Everyone but her knows something about her but they shut up as soon as they see her
Her mother gets sick
Her mother dies
Only her death can prevent an interdimensional disaster
Crusaders who look like Knights Templar are actively trying to kill her
A hell god is trying to sacrifice her
and on top of all this, she has the usual questions of whether she is going to be popular, whether she is going to attract the right boy, whether she is doing well in school and whether anyone gives a damn about her at all are still on her mind. Her artificial mind with artificial memories of a life she never lived. In her case where her family and friends were trying to cajole her into thinking nothing was wrong, I wouldn't have just told them to get out x 3, I would have found ways to hurt them and extract the truth out of them. I am normally a pacifist, but is someone tries to tell me I saw what I didn't see or didn't see what I saw, I get my Angelus on and get creative with pain.
In the DVD commentaries, Alyson Hannigan said she was impressed by Michelle Trachtenberg as a great actress. Her opinion is correct and it outweighs that of the entire internet.
She is not real
None of her memories are real
Her father abandoned her
Everyone but Spike is lying to her
Everyone but her knows something about her but they shut up as soon as they see her
Her mother gets sick
Her mother dies
Only her death can prevent an interdimensional disaster
Crusaders who look like Knights Templar are actively trying to kill her
A hell god is trying to sacrifice her
and on top of all this, she has the usual questions of whether she is going to be popular, whether she is going to attract the right boy, whether she is doing well in school and whether anyone gives a damn about her at all are still on her mind. Her artificial mind with artificial memories of a life she never lived. In her case where her family and friends were trying to cajole her into thinking nothing was wrong, I wouldn't have just told them to get out x 3, I would have found ways to hurt them and extract the truth out of them. I am normally a pacifist, but is someone tries to tell me I saw what I didn't see or didn't see what I saw, I get my Angelus on and get creative with pain.
In the DVD commentaries, Alyson Hannigan said she was impressed by Michelle Trachtenberg as a great actress. Her opinion is correct and it outweighs that of the entire internet.
That's news to me , in that case she should be commended for doing such a good job as I actually was able to invest in the character and didn't judge her as harshly as some other viewers
DagonSphere
Potential
Omg, I think Michelle was fantastic as Dawn, she had so much vulnerability and depth at such a young age. The only scenes in which I found her lacking were scenes in which I thought Dawn was not particularly well written, such as the aforementioned "Get Out ! Get Out! Get Out" scene.
AnthonyCordova
By suffering, learning
This is where I usually mention how much Dawn was central to the main themes of Season 5, how critical Dawn as a character was to Buffy's growth as a human being and how the trajectory and end of the season (and Buffy's sacrifice) makes zero sense without Dawn and what she represented yada yada but on the specific issue of her just being annoying I agree with others in this thread that have said those moments were relatively few and don't represent an objection to her character, for me. Yay for run-on sentences!