Did Angel leaving make BTVS a better or worse show?

It was bad. No one really replaced what Angel was and the character suffered when he was given his own show. Buffy's Angel was much different than Angel's Angel. Angel staying on Buffy could have really helped to fill out some of the episodes that were a little light on B and C plots.
Conversely, maybe Willow would not have become such a dominating presence so that too would be a good thing.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Interesting perspective.
I do like the tone of the earlier Seasons better and I do think that Angel leaving did have something to do with the tone changing however I personally am glad Angel left BtVS. By the time Season 3 ended that relationship was more than played out and we certainly didn’t need 4 more seasons of them breaking up and getting back together or helplessly pinning after each other while in close proximity. Him leaving allowed for both characters to move forward with their own journeys, they would have stayed stuck if he would have stayed in Sunnydale.
 
KaitKat said:
we certainly didn’t need 4 more seasons of them breaking up and getting back
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But it wouldn't have to be that. They could have realized that the goal of containing the hellmouth trumped their personal feelings and agreed to move on. It would have been so easy to find a way to keep the character without it turning into the Angel and Buffy show (though some could argue the show turned into the Spike and Buffy show anyway)
 
Spanky said:
But it wouldn't have to be that. They could have realized that the goal of containing the hellmouth trumped their personal feelings and agreed to move on. It would have been so easy to find a way to keep the character without it turning into the Angel and Buffy show (though some could argue the show turned into the Spike and Buffy show anyway)
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While that may be possible I really don’t think that would have happened. I think the show would have became a rut. I do agree with you on it becoming the Buffy and Spike show in Season 7. I liked Spike better when he went to Angel in Season 5 when their stories became about them and not Buffy. Ultimately they were never going to get that on Buffy’s show. I do agree though that no other character ever replaced Angel but I also don’t think they were supposed to. I think on some level we were supposed to feel the hole in Buffy’s life after he’d left. Ultimately though him leaving was one of the few responsible decisions he made on BtVS.
 
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Spanky said:
But it wouldn't have to be that. They could have realized that the goal of containing the hellmouth trumped their personal feelings and agreed to move on. It would have been so easy to find a way to keep the character without it turning into the Angel and Buffy show (though some could argue the show turned into the Spike and Buffy show anyway)
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That was never gonna happen though. The Will they won't they had been used up in S2 and in S3 was incredibly boring. Even the writers were making fun of it
"You looking for Buffy ?" "As always"
But it's what fans wanted, IWRY was basically that done large with a reset at the end.
Ats actually made Angel a character as well instead of just the broody boyfriend.
On Buffy Of course it didn't that the replacement Riley was a flat waste of space with no chemistry with Buffy and that Joss really doesn't know how to write a relationship besides the "will they won't they routine

@Buffy Summers Do you not think Angel was a better character on his own show instead of just the boyfriend ?
 
Ultimately good, great even.
By moving Angel onto his own show they gave room for an expanded roster of characters both in LA and in Sunnydale, could emphasize different plots and themes, explore different aspects of characters and finally could write story lines that didn't fit into a small town setting like Sunnydale.

I think Sunnydale-bound Angel was okay, but main-character Angel is one of the best.
 
Honestly the show felt the same. Season 4 was never gonna live up to the drama and hype of season 3. Also Angel became a way better character for the Buffyverse. Angel’s role wasn’t replaced, but he didn’t really fit into the main scooby dynamic in the first place. I mean he definitely was apart of the team but his personality wasn’t as impactful, as say Oz or Giles. He just randomly shows up, Broods and is over dramatic about Buffy. He didn’t have the same level of depth as Willow or Buffy at that point. Giving him is one series made him a lot more entertaining and funny. Buffy continued to deliver stellar episodes and plot lines. However I do wish there were more frequent crossover episodes! The thanksgiving one was a classic
 
I wasn't happy when Angel left like that and it left a void that was never filled. Maybe it was for the best though... but I do sometimes wonder how it would've gone if he had stayed. Obviously they needed to develop the character, take some time away off screen so he could completely re-invent himself or get kind of a side story then join back the group as an actual asset and sidekick instead of 'the boyfriend'. I don't know, possibilities are infinite but they went for a spinoff and it brought some interesting things and Angel wasn't in Buffy's shadow anymore. I remember thinking that Angel in Angel was sometimes too much.
Something was left unmatched after one show became two (different) shows but they did well I guess and there was an audience for both.
 
Good for BtVS, I think. They could have dropped the romance, though Bangel fans would always have been hoping. But I think he was too dominant a character to be just another Scooby. Look how they struggled with what to do with Spike, and Angel could not be turned into a comedic character, or reluctant ally, or toxic love interest. He could have been the demon contact, I suppose, but otherwise he would have been contributing arcane knowledge, like Giles, or having super-strength like Buffy, just a duplication of powers. It would have been a disservice to his character, I think.
 
Idk if it was good or bad for BtVS overall as a show. It was definitely different though. I like the high school years better but I still watch the later seasons on a rewatch. The show definitely still cranked out stellar storylines and added fresh characters, but it always felt like something was missing from the show after Angel left and well what was missing was Angel. But, it wasn't just Angel. It was a part of Buffy that was missing too. It's like her innocence and optimism left when Angel left. Buffy definitely hardened once Angel was gone. We didn't get to see that vulnerable side of Buffy much anymore because Angel was who she was the most vulnerable with. I know as people get older the cynicism and pessimism can often set in, but to me it wasn't just Buffy getting older it was also that Angel left. I missed the Buffy that she was when Angel was on the show. Still loved the Buffy she became, but a part of her was missing from s4 forward.
 
I wouldn’t say that Angel’s leaving made Buffy The Vampire Slayer worse because it was still the same show it always had been. For me it was not the same and would not be the same again. Even on rewatch’s I only watch that part in Forever and skip to Season 7 after watching Buffy Seasons 1-4. I still miss Angel on Buffy.


it affected and changed the character Buffy in a profound way. She was no longer the same and it was not good. She was not so willing to let anyone in. Buffy the character would never be the same again. Her Slaying didn’t change and Buffy got better at it. That much stayed the same.


It was never the same for me and that is why the first 3 seasons of Buffy are my favorite. What broke up Buffy and Angel was Angel: The Series. It was hard to keep Bangel up when the 2 characters that still comprised it were not on the same show. There was still snippets of Bangel sprinkled throughout. Angel’s departure created a hole that was never filled the rest of the series. The series Buffy The Vampire Slayer was never the same again.
 
Ann said:
I wouldn’t say that Angel’s leaving made Buffy The Vampire Slayer worse because it was still the same show it always had been. For me it was not the same and would not be the same again. Even on rewatch’s I only watch that part in Forever and skip to Season 7 after watching Buffy Seasons 1-4. I still miss Angel on Buffy.


it affected and changed the character Buffy in a profound way. She was no longer the same and it was not good. She was not so willing to let anyone in. Buffy the character would never be the same again. Her Slaying didn’t change and Buffy got better at it. That much stayed the same.


It was never the same for me and that is why the first 3 seasons of Buffy are my favorite. What broke up Buffy and Angel was Angel: The Series. It was hard to keep Bangel up when the 2 characters that still comprised it were not on the same show. There was still snippets of Bangel sprinkled throughout. Angel’s departure created a hole that was never filled the rest of the series. The series Buffy The Vampire Slayer was never the same again.
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But again where do you go from it. It was played out. The writers openly mocked it in the show. The scene in the Zeppo or Oz and Angel conversation in Dopplegangland.
I mean what probably would've happened was possibly a triangle with Riley but sounds boring as hell
 
If Bangel was played out what was Clark & Lana in Smallvile 👀 Minor parenthesis but these two were a good example of a drag and that's def not something I would've wanted to see on BTSV but I don't think Bangel was played out. They made a decision but it wasn't the only possible way to go on with the story. As much as I like Bangel, there is more to Buffy than her relationships. They could've surely come up with ideas leading to more or less interesting moments but the spinoff happened. I don't think a spinoff was a bad idea though because obviously there is a lot to explore in this universe but maybe it centered too much on Angel but then again it was his show haha Other spinoffs would've been appreciated or just not calling it Angel so we could explore his character but also more characters, something more general. Infinite possibilities really :s
 
I think having both Cordelia and Angel leave did hurt the show, especially during season 4, but by season 5 you had enough other characters that they weren't missed as much. So yes and no!
 
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