Did Angel Leave Buffy for legitimate reasons?

[Curious Pathos]

I have been struggling with this for a long time. I don't understand Angel's stated reason for leaving Buffy in "The Prom". He says he wants her to have a normal life, implying kids and a real relationship, but I don't see his reasoning. I want to focus on Angel's train of thought, here.

He can't control who she ends up, so let’s say for the sake of argument, she did fall in love with a human, and he just happened to be sterile. Said sterile human cannot prove her children in this traditional sense that he implies during his break-up conversation. What does this mean for Angel's reasoning for leaving her?

What would Angel’s sacrifice prove? Nothing...
Because in the real world, there are humans who for medical reasons have to survive on a liquid diet;
In the real world, there are albinos who have a deadly relationship with the sun;
In the real world, there are sterile people who have to resort to other means to start a family;
In the real world, couples don’t die at the same time, one almost always lives longer than the other.
I honestly don't see what him leaving could possibly guarantee, and I don't see why they could not work out a solution for the both of them.

Should every sterile person follow Angel’s logic and leave, so that the person they love can find someone who can have children with them biologically? I mean, really? Taking the argument further, what if Buffy and Angel happened to be a same-sex couple? What if she fell in love with a terminally ill person?

This leaving for her own good, so she can lead a normal life is a nonsense argument. Not to mention she is a slayer, she will never have a normal life or a life without the constant supernatural war she has to wage, so what was the point? How does his reasoning make any sense? This is a constant thread throughout the Bangel scenes, and I don't understand why it has to be this desire for normal life that keeps them apart. He's a vampire, so what; he has a soul, right?

As a side note, I understand that he has a curse, but he does not mention the curse during the break-up scene. He never says anything to the effect of "I can't help be happy every moment we share together, so I'm a walking time bomb. Any special moment we share could undo the curse." He instead insists on this normal life angle that I don't understand. The curse is also never mentioned throughout the rest of the Bangel scenes. I would have loved to see Buffy and Angel look for a way to anchor his soul, together. Narratively, it would be fascinating to explore the Buffyverse, world-build around the soul canon, and actually show a relationship that would last longer than two seasons, but I also understand that he needed to leave for his own show. While I still think his stated reasoning was flawed, I agree that breaking-up was probably best for the long run.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I agree, I never found his reasoning terribly valid lol

 

[brinkster130]

He loved her and wanted the best for her, which he clearly he didn’t believe he couldn’t give her. Simple as that.

 

[Puppet]

See, this is why I always say that Angel was selfish in this scene, instead of selfless like so many other fans see it as. Because the reasons he states for breaking up with her are truly confusing and ridiculous and I wonder what the writers were on when they came up with that. Because they could have used actual reasons, instead, like the whole curse-thing that the OP mentioned. I just...don't get it...

 

[MarlieTheSlayer]

As a side note, I understand that he has a curse, but he does not mention the curse during the break-up scene.

He does mention the curse:

ANGEL
You deserve more. You deserve
something outside of... demons
and darkness. You should have
someone who can take you into
the light. Someone who can make
love to you-
 
+ Buffy agrees with the leading a normal life thing:

BUFFY
Will. It's okay. You don't have to
make him the bad guy.

WILLOW
(at a loss)
But - that's the best friend's job.
Vilifying and grousing.

BUFFY
Usually yeah.
(with difficulty)
But he's right. In the long run - I
think maybe he's right.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Buffy had for the longest time been telling Angel, and her friends, that she wanted a way to have a normal life and manage that against being a Slayer. She has not given up hope by Season 3 that she can't with some semblance of normalcy. You have to look at this from the pre-Season 5 lens where that strive for normalcy is essentially extinguished. Buffy wants to go on real dates, she considers going to college outside of Sunnydale, she bemoans her inability to choose a career, she talks about the importance of having a perfect prom moment. She wants all of those things and also she loves Angel. And those two things are not necessarily compatible at this time.

Angel for his part is at a period in his life where he is just finding his own self-worth. All that he has ever cared about, all he has ever loved is Buffy and is a great deal to impose upon someone who he sees as still young and who knows what she will want out of life? She has to figure it out. I think at that moment, Angel believes that Buffy deserves to try and have the normal life she has always expressed she always wanted. (All the stuff she will get to do with Riley). Because these are things that Buffy herself has always told Angel. See WML "I wish we could be normal kids" for example. Add insult to injury that Joyce, the person who loves and cares for Buffy more than anyone else in the world is telling Angel to let her go. How can Angel ignore that? And ultimately, we see that in this episode when Buffy is speaking to Willow she agrees with Angel. She hates it but agrees with it.

You mention that some human relationships are similarly limited (liquid diets, medical problems, etc.) but these are normal human relationships and that is not what we are dealing with here. Angel sees himself as part of the darkness that is holding Buffy back from living a normal life. He is not human and sick. He believes he is damned/cursed (see the Darla arc). He has a tenuous relationship with the human world and he doesn't want that to color Buffy's experiences.

Now ask me if I think he was right? Ultimately, no. I think that after a few seasons, Buffy realizes that she won't ever have normal. But I think ultimately she had to come to that conclusion on her own and Angel leaving allowed her to do that. Incidentally, while this is not why he left her, Angel leaving Buffy and finding his own mission/ purpose was the best thing that could have happened to him. He became a hero in his own right, he seems to have much more confidence in his place in this world. I think Buffy and him are so much more compatible now than they were in the past.

As a side note, I understand that he has a curse, but he does not mention the curse during the break-up scene.

Sure he does, he says : "Someone who can make love to you. "

 

[Fool for Buffy]

The normal life argument is ridiculous. Know your audience Angel. You are literally talking to the least likely person to have a normal life in the world. As far as "someone who can make love to you", he's right that eventually she definitely cares about that, but would she have if Angel had stayed? Hard to say. Probably, but I don't know that it's a necessity. This is why Giles' argument regarding Spike in Lies is ridiculous. Angel leaving was not wise. It was Angel's decision and it worked out. But I don't see how anyone can justify it being the right thing to do.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

The normal life argument is ridiculous. Know your audience Angel. You are literally talking to the least likely person to have a normal life in the world

But then you need to have a conversation with Season 2/3 Buffy about that because at that point she had not given up hope of having normalcy. I think alot of times see this scene is looked at from a retrospective perspective. By Season 7 there was never going to be anything normal about Buffy's life. That is a given. But in Season 3, she still wants normal. And who is Angel to hold her back from that?

 

[Fool for Buffy]

But then you need to have a conversation with Season 2/3 Buffy about that because at that point she had not given up hope of having normalcy. I think alot of times see this scene from a retrospective perspective. By Season 7 there was never going to be anything normal about Buffy's life. That is a given. But in Season 3, she still wants normal. And who is Angel to hold her back from that?

I am pretty sure when Buffy decided to go to college in Sunnydale and Faith turned evil, she had lost any chance of a normal life. As Joyce points out, Faith taking over was really her shot. Whether or not she desires a normal life is beside the point, she does understand at this point that she can't give up her duty. Season 1 Buffy was a different story. But by the end of season 3, she knew someone had to fight, and she was willing to be that person.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I am pretty sure when Buffy decided to go to college in Sunnydale and Faith turned evil, she had lost any chance of a normal life. As Joyce points out, Faith taking over was really her shot. Whether or not she desires a normal life is beside the point, she does understand at this point that she can't give up her duty. Season 1 Buffy was a different story. But by the end of season 3, she knew someone had to fight, and she was willing to be that person.

Well I never implied that she thought she could just leave behind her duties. But I disagree that she believe she "lost any chance of a normal life." Sure she wasn't going off to some East Coast Ivy League school, she had to stay and protect the hell mouth but she continues to be interested in having some sense of normalcy. She wants to go on real dates with Angel. She wants to go to Prom, she enrolls at UC Sunnydale. In Season 4, she still goes to college (meaning she is planning for some type of degree/future), she goes to college parties, and dates a human boy and she is actually bummed out when she realizes that he works for a demon fighting organization because she thought he was just a regular joe. She still appears to be holding on to hope that she can have a balance of some sort.

 

[Fool for Buffy]

Well I never implied that she thought she could just leave behind her duties. But I disagree that she believe sshe "lost any chance of a normal life." Sure she wasn't going off to some East Coast Ivy League school, she had to stay and protect the hell mouth but she continues to be interested in having some sense of normalcy. She wants to go on real dates with Angel. She wants to go to Prom, she enrolls at UC Sunnydale. In Season 4, she still goes to college (meaning she is planning for some type of degree/future), she goes to college parties, and dates a human boy and she is actually bummed out when she realizes that he works for a demon fighting organization because she thought he was just a regular joe. She still appears to be holding on to hope that she can have a balance of some sort.

Ok I see where you're coming from now. Naturally I'm still gonna disagree. Buffy's hopes for Riley to be a regular guy were a direct result of Angel leaving her. She didn't want slaying to get in the way again so someone would leave her again. If Angel hadn't left her, I can't see her caring about college guys. She was trying to start new completely and seperate slaying and personal life, but she was happy when the two were together, as long as it was Angel.

Going to Prom, going to college, and going on real dates are not things she couldn't do with Angel. She did go on dates with him, even if they started very unconventionally, Angel got use to the vibe in mid season 2. And once Angel actually understood the meaning of Prom, he did go with her. Basically I think she could have done all the normal things with a not so normal guy and she would have been happy. And I think he was foolish to not see that.
 
@dcai0830 thats right. Bad Eggs is the one with all the making out. Thanks.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

The obvious answer is good ole Joyce did a mind game on him. She never liked the idea of her daughter being a vampire slayer let alone being in love with one so she fed Angel a line of BS that, because he is the consummate "good guy" he believed and did what he thought- as per Joyce's instructions- was best for Buffy.

Joyce was the reason he left. Period. There is no other answer.

 

[white avenger]

I honestly wish that they could have come up with some more original excuse to get Angel out of town and onto his own series, which was actually the only real reason for his leaving. "I'm leaving, my darling, because you deserve so much more from life than I could ever give you. I will love you always, but I am only holding you back," is one of the oldest cliches in literature, especially since that "so much better" turned out to be yet another cliche, the young girl, away from home for the first time, who meets the dashing young man who just happens to be the only possible potential boyfriend with the prerequisite skills needed to help her in her secret mission. Joss and his writers should have been able to come up with something better.

 

[EarthLogic]

I wish they'd come up with better reasons too, but if we were to look at it logically then there really would be no reason to leave - we can all think of a number of ways they could have worked around the issues. I think @dcai0830 has pretty much covered the explanation but I'll add a few points:

Buffy's continued desire for a normal life is definitely a factor. She even makes it explicit in IWRY where she says 'This is the first time I've ever really felt this way...Like a normal girl falling asleep in the arms of her normal boyfriend'. So normal or close-to-normal was something she still held out for at that point, despite denying it before. Of course that episode ends up showing that normal doesn't quite work for their lives either.

Then there's the issue of how Angel sees himself. In the breakup he calls their relationship a 'freak show', which is a horribly harsh thing to say but I don't think he is actually talking about them together, rather I think it reveals a lot about how he sees himself at that point. Buffy has inspired him to fight on, but his confidence in who he is is still lacking. A human being with equivalent physical limitations is still a part of the human world, whereas Angel isn't. He still sees himself as part of the darkness and thinks Buffy would have to make compromises to be with him and that it would come to define her life more than it should, despite her being the Slayer. It also helps explain why the Mayor's and Joyce's words affected him so significantly.

I do think they should have made much more of Angel's ticking time bomb of a curse, because that was really the legitimate factor - how long could they realistically go on denying themselves before giving in to their desires. However I think the writers did give us a more compelling reason with Graduation Day. When Angel was dying of the poison he actually changed his mind, saying that he couldn't leave her. Up until then I think there was still the possibility that he'd decide to stay (from the characters' POV anyway, obviously story-wise he had to leave) but then he ends up drinking from Buffy which reawakens his human bloodlust. That sealed the deal I think, by underscoring the danger of them being around each other. If Angel wasn't terrified of losing control of himself - soul-wise, and vampire-wise - before then, he definitely was afterwards.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

but if we were to look at it logically then there really would be no reason to leave - we can all think of a number of ways they could have worked around the issues.

I mean personally I keep sending them emails about this but no one seems to listen.... 😛

 

[Curious Pathos]

Personally, I don't see the "Someone who can make love to you-" as a mention of the curse because the curse requires Perfect Happiness to be broken, not sex. I thought it was a part of the "real relationship" pitch. Maybe I'm wrong and it is a more explicit reference than I think it is. I really did not see happiness and its result on the curse as a topic of the break-up, which I perceive as an unnecessary focus on this normal life discussion. This is why I used this hypothetical quote as an example: "I can't help be happy every moment we share together, so I'm a walking time bomb. Any special moment we share could undo the curse."

@brinkster130 See, I don't quite get that reasoning. Why would he forfeit his position in her life, a position that he might not be able to give her everything he thinks she deserves, to play the background, where he has no guarantee she will get anything near what he thinks she deserves? I mean, he could be sure that he would try his best to give her everything she deserves, but he can't ensure the next guy would even do that much, i.e. Parker. I might understand if there was a person currently in Buffy's life who he believed would give her what he believed she deserved, but there wasn't. I don't see what he thought he was giving to her. He wasn't giving her a chance to be with an actual person, but a hypothetical person who doesn't even exist. He just left the woman he loved high and dry from where I'm standing, and for dubious reasons, which frustrate me. I know he loves her, but I don't really see why he would leave her to pursue a life that, during the break-up scene, they both admit she could never have?

 

[EarthLogic]

especially since that "so much better" turned out to be yet another cliche, the young girl, away from home for the first time, who meets the dashing young man who just happens to be the only possible potential boyfriend with the prerequisite skills needed to help her in her secret mission.

I don't understand what you're referring to here.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't understand what you're referring to here.

I think he's talking about her going to college and Riley being a demon hunter himself.

 

[EarthLogic]

Personally, I don't see the "Someone who can make love to you-" as a mention of the curse because the curse requires Perfect Happiness to be broken, not sex.

That part of the argument seemed obvious to me. At that point they're all still thinking of perfect happiness = sex and for all intents and purposes it is. Making love to Buffy, or at least being with her intimately even in the aftermath of lovemaking is Angel's perfect happiness. So yeah, he can't make love to her.

I think he's talking about her going to college and Riley being a demon hunter himself.

Ah, ok. I think I was just thrown by the description of him as a 'dashing young man', lol 😛

 

[Curious Pathos]

That part of the argument seemed obvious to me. At that point, they're all still thinking of perfect happiness = sex and for all intents and purposes, it is. Making love to Buffy, or at least being with her intimately even in the aftermath of lovemaking is Angel's perfect happiness. So yeah, he can't make love to her.

Does that even matter? Do they have to have sex to be together? At this point, I think there could be an STD metaphor, where one has a disease and the other doesn't, and to keep it that way, they can't have sex, but they still love each other and decide to be together regardless. This normal life thing is getting flimsier for me, but I do like the idea that Angel's self-doubt along with Joyce and the Mayor created this weird narrative within Angel's mind. It's a way more comforting theory than the alternative, the producers just need to get to LA for his own TV show.