Buffy VS Faith - Who was the better slayer?

Who is the best slayer?

  • Buffy

    Votes: 48 81.4%
  • Faith

    Votes: 7 11.9%
  • Kendra Young

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • Total voters
    59
Yes, but we are not talking about a war or indirectly killing someone. She took a stake, and pushed it through a man's heart. Yes, it was a mistake and I don't blame her for it, but her reaction was not healthy, which contributes to why Buffy is stronger than her. Buffy's reaction to killing someone is feeling the guilt and taking responsibility for her actions without hurting others, Faith was just about the opposite.
Faith was fighting in a war against vampires and demons. So, to show moral relative theories, people go to war and by accident they kill someone they should not have done so. Do we reward someone that take a stiff upper lip and move on, and deals with their internal demons by becoming more conservative in life. Or, do we accept someone dealing with their demons, trying to work out their demons, and trying to seek help in the community.

If Faith became involved with her inner demons, and talked about suicide, people would look at her as more weaker as a character. And being thought of a weaker character, the fans would have been more bored with the conflict and fights between Buffy and Faith.
 
As a atheist, I do not really support morality -- its to Christian. Yes, there is morality, but morality is relative, and it is the culture we are currently within our current society. If you are dealing with a single issue case of a single person, you have to understand your culture and history as guide to base a moral judgment

I'm an atheist too and morality is also known as being a decent human being. It's not exclusive to religion. You wouldn't go out and mug a little old lady would you, that's morality in play. Your morals tell you it is wrong to mug a little old lady therefore you don't do it. Therefore saying you "do not really support morality" is untrue, either that or it's a damning assessment of your character. Pick one.

Yes, but we are not talking about a war or indirectly killing someone. She took a stake, and pushed it through a man's heart. Yes, it was a mistake and I don't blame her for it, but her reaction was not healthy, which contributes to why Buffy is stronger than her. Buffy's reaction to killing someone is feeling the guilt and taking responsibility for her actions without hurting others, Faith was just about the opposite.

Exactly. Being a slayer is a responsibility not a free for all. Just imagine if Finch had been a kid that was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, shouldn't Faith feel guilt then? Faith accidentally killed someone who wasn't a vampire and she didn't care, which led to her developing a bloodlust where she eagerly killed others whilst in the service of the mayor.

Faith was fighting in a war against vampires and demons. So, to show moral relative theories, people go to war and by accident they kill someone they should not have done so. Do we reward someone that take a stiff upper lip and move on, and deals with their internal demons by becoming more conservative in life. Or, do we accept someone dealing with their demons, trying to work out their demons, and trying to seek help in the community.

People are being hauled up in court over past actions during wars. Being in a war does not give carte blanche to do whatever the hell you want. The same rule applies to Faith. Being a slayer doesn't mean she can just go around killing people.

If Faith became involved with her inner demons, and talked about suicide, people would look at her as more weaker as a character. And being thought of a weaker character, the fans would have been more bored with the conflict and fights between Buffy and Faith.

Despite the fact that the will to survive is the most basic of instincts and is the foundation of life itself, and that it would take an extreme state of desperation and despair to override that instinct; as far as your concerned, people who commit or consider suicide are "weak", is that correct?

In my view, if Faith did consider suicide (and that idea was floated by the writers at one point with Buffy finding Faith's body after she hung herself), for her to be in that situation would show the audience how badly she feels and how desperate she is to make it stop. For her to accept help when it is offered or to even ask for it takes strength. Faith didn't want help in Season 3, she didn't want help in Season 4, but when she finally accepted Angel's help in Season 1 of his show, that is when she got better. That is when she got interesting instead of being the stereotypical good time girl. She took responsibility for her actions and she was prepared to face the consequence for them, that took guts.

Season 3 Faith is overrated.
 
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I'm an atheist too and morality is also known as being a decent human being. It's not exclusive to religion. You wouldn't go out and mug a little old lady would you, that's morality in play. Your morals tell you it is wrong to mug a little old lady therefore you don't do it. Therefore saying you "do not really support morality" is untrue, either that or it's a damning assessment of your character. Pick one.

This makes it more interesting that I am debating a fellow atheist, because it is easier to explain complex issues without explaining the baggage of Christianity. Yes, atheist can be moral, but, atheist can and does cherry pick the morality they feel is social justice. Talking to you before, we both agree that morality is relative and it changes from time to time. And no, I would not go and mug a little old lady. But, I understand that there is a criminal outcome with mugging a little old lady. Even if I am not arrested that day, it would be years before I am free and clear of the crime. With the first few weeks, checking if the police are coming to my home to arrest me for the crime. And over time, a more ability that the police have given up and moved on with different crimes will take over as the months move on. Is this a moral issue, or, understanding and worry about a existential treat. Is it a moral feeling of unease or is it really a existential treat understanding, or both. If on the other hand, I come home and noticed a package on my front door. After studying the package, it was dropped off by a UPS driver, and I noticed that the drive dropped off the package at the wrong house. What is the downside by not taking the package and taking it to its correct address? The owner of the package will call UPS and declare the package was not delivered to their home. They will accept the error, and make sure a replacement is sent to the correct address. Sure, the owner will take more time to get the package and the only one that will be paying for the package is UPS. Is it immoral to be cheating UPS, maybe not, because the company has already factored into their business plan with making errors with delivery mix ups. With the owner of the package, they will receive the package in do time. Now, is the owner of the package understand that I was immoral, or, look at UPS as being the agent at fault so he or she sees them as immoral or moral.



Exactly. Being a slayer is a responsibility not a free for all. Just imagine if Finch had been a kid that was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, shouldn't Faith feel guilt then? Faith accidentally killed someone who wasn't a vampire and she didn't care, which led to her developing a bloodlust where she eagerly killed others whilst in the service of the mayor.

Blood lust, is not killing vampires and demons a different type of blood lust? Do not vampires and demons have civil rights as equal as humans? If we judge them to be unequal to you and me, is that immoral as well? If we can declare one group, in this case, a fantasy group being vampire and demons as being subhuman to humanity -- it does not take that long to judge other real groups to be subhuman as well. Since were both atheist, we can team up and pick on Christians because they are Christians. There are a number of atheist that are trolling together to team up against Christians. With me, I find it is a waste of time and energy. But, since we both believe it is just to treat vampires and demons on Buffy the Vampire Slayers a subhuman and not bound to morality. If we did team up as atheist and started to pick on Christians for being Christians -- we first discovered each other because we had a common interest with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and then we discovered we are both atheist. You can see were this morality story is going.



People are being hauled up in court over past actions during wars. Being in a war does not give carte blanche to do whatever the hell you want. The same rule applies to Faith. Being a slayer doesn't mean she can just go around killing people.

There are a number of European countries that want to charge former Vice President Richard Cheney for war crimes during the Iraqi war. This is the reason he has never left the United States after the second Bush Administration. The world is passing a United Nation war crimes treaty, and the United States is not willing to pass this simple treaty. The Republicans are not willing to accept it and since it takes 67 senators to pass the treaty -- it will never pass as any positive outcome with the Democrats will not get a 67 seat majority in the senate.



Despite the fact that the will to survive is the most basic of instincts and is the foundation of life itself, and that it would take an extreme state of desperation and despair to override that instinct; as far as your concerned, people who commit or consider suicide are "weak", is that correct?

In my view, if Faith did consider suicide (and that idea was floated by the writers at one point with Buffy finding Faith's body after she hung herself), for her to be in that situation would show the audience how badly she feels and how desperate she is to make it stop. For her to accept help when it is offered or to even ask for it takes strength. Faith didn't want help in Season 3, she didn't want help in Season 4, but when she finally accepted Angel's help in Season 1 of his show, that is when she got better. That is when she got interesting instead of being the stereotypical good time girl. She took responsibility for her actions and she was prepared to face the consequence for them, that took guts.

Season 3 Faith is overrated.
As a atheist I do not fear death. In fact, since I was a teenager I was planning my life to be with plans of myself living into my 90's. In fact, I have studied my death well. When I get older or with the ability to move to a right to die state if the job market lets me do so for the rest of my natural life. If I get sick and have a terminal illness, I want the right to die under the laws of a right to die state. I am not interested in pushing my body to live a extra longer just for vanity sake. Now, some people call this suicide, so be it. If on the other hand, I am told I have a mental conduction were my mind will slowly decline and end up not knowing who I am or were I am. I will just take my life and that is that.

I do not see suicide is a negative, but I understand as a culture we look at suicide as a negative. Therefore, it was unwise to have Faith attempt suicide
 
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This makes it more interesting that I am debating a fellow atheist, because it is easier to explain complex issues without explaining the baggage of Christianity. Yes, atheist can be moral, but, atheist can and does cherry pick the morality they feel is social justice. Talking to you before, we both agree that morality is relative and it changes from time to time. And no, I would not go and mug a little old lady. But, I understand that there is a criminal outcome with mugging a little old lady. Even if I am not arrested that day, it would be years before I am free and clear of the crime. With the first few weeks, checking if the police are coming to my home to arrest me for the crime. And over time, a more ability that the police have given up and moved on with different crimes will take over as the months move on. Is this a moral issue, or, understanding and worry about a existential treat. Is it a moral feeling of unease or is it really a existential treat understanding, or both. If on the other hand, I come home and noticed a package on my front door. After studying the package, it was dropped off by a UPS driver, and I noticed that the drive dropped off the package at the wrong house. What is the downside by not taking the package and taking it to its correct address? The owner of the package will call UPS and declare the package was not delivered to their home. They will accept the error, and make sure a replacement is sent to the correct address. Sure, the owner will take more time to get the package and the only one that will be paying for the package is UPS. Is it immoral to be cheating UPS, maybe not, because the company has already factored into their business plan with making errors with delivery mix ups. With the owner of the package, they will receive the package in do time. Now, is the owner of the package understand that I was immoral, or, look at UPS as being the agent at fault so he or she sees them as immoral or moral.

Would you not feel guilt for mugging an old lady even if you could get away with it? Would you not feel guilt over stealing your neighbours parcel? Morality and being a decent human being isn't based on whether or not you can get away with doing something wrong and not get caught, it's about knowing the difference between right and wrong in the first place.

Do not vampires and demons have civil rights as equal as humans?

In-show, no. It would've been interesting if the Initiative storyline had been used to explore the ethical issue of sentient beings being used as lab rats. Buffy's job is to slay vampires and demons and keep the balance between good and evil. I actually think vampires and slayers know this and accept it. When slayers and vampires meet, they know only one of them is going to be walking away, it's the "natural order" of things. They don't hold any personal ill will towards each other, it's just how things work.

Since were both atheist, we can team up and pick on Christians because they are Christians. There are a number of atheist that are trolling together to team up against Christians. With me, I find it is a waste of time and energy.

With me, I find it wrong.

But, since we both believe it is just to treat vampires and demons on Buffy the Vampire Slayers a subhuman and not bound to morality. If we did team up as atheist and started to pick on Christians for being Christians -- we first discovered each other because we had a common interest with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and then we discovered we are both atheist. You can see were this morality story is going.

No.

Back on topic: Buffy is the better slayer because she is the balance between what Kendra represents and what Faith represents.
 
Let's keep to the topic and not start getting personal.
i do not see me and DeadlyDuo
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Would you not feel guilt for mugging an old lady even if you could get away with it? Would you not feel guilt over stealing your neighbours parcel? Morality and being a decent human being isn't based on whether or not you can get away with doing something wrong and not get caught, it's about knowing the difference between right and wrong in the first place.

As a atheist, I look at the theories of guilt or not guilty as being a Christian argument. On the other hand, I think more like a shame based society and culture like in Asia. If I feel guilty and I myself am the only person that understands that as a fact, were do I go to do my redeeming. If I was a Christian, I can attend church more often and give money to the church. And when over time I feel I have been forgiven for my guilt I can move on with my life. As a atheist, I cannot perform this right of passage. On the other hand, I can do other activities that does not have any connection with the church. Still, I would be a agent performing actions in the same forum and matters equal as a Christian.



In-show, no. It would've been interesting if the Initiative storyline had been used to explore the ethical issue of sentient beings being used as lab rats. Buffy's job is to slay vampires and demons and keep the balance between good and evil. I actually think vampires and slayers know this and accept it. When slayers and vampires meet, they know only one of them is going to be walking away, it's the "natural order" of things. They don't hold any personal ill will towards each other, it's just how things work.

Natural order is very much making the argument of natural law, and once again, a Christian argument you are making. I look at it with the scope of human rights, and since vampires were at one time human -- they should be judged under human rights as well. Just because they were changed from being human to being vampires should not change their standing. With demons, even that a number of cultures do have demons -- with Buffy displaying the crucifix necklace she is displaying a Christian dogma dealing with demons. With that as a fact, they do not have any Christian or atheist rights to live. Since atheist do not believe in demons, there is no argument one way or the other on killing them.



With me, I find it wrong.



No.

Back on topic: Buffy is the better slayer because she is the balance between what Kendra represents and what Faith represents.

Faith only became redeemed when she accepted, and other agreed with her -- that Buffy was the dominate slayer of the two slayers. My feeling, if you have two women you need to prove that one woman is more dominate over the other. If you do not do that, the fans will change it from who is the more dominate to being who is the more weaker. Both characters would become more and more weaker until they are so weak that the fans finds both characters disliked. If they were to become equal, they would fall into the Olson Twins trap. The Olson Twins decided to be equal to each other in their adult movies. After time as adults, fans debated who was the weaker twin until the fans decided they were both weak and moved on. On the other hand, their sister has become a more loved adult actor
 
Yeah, not sure how this is a question. Buffy transformed the world as she saved it. She changed the rules and empowered all the slayers on the planet. She made a different world for herself, her friends, family and the extended supernatural fight. I don't think that Faith could have done this even if she hadn't been so broken. She might have been or eventually become as good a fighter (though canon appears silent about this) but there's more to being a slayer than just being able to fight. Buffy led. Faith followed, and she did grow a great deal, but she was a captain, Buffy was the General. Kendra was at best a foot soldier and she died as canon fodder.
 
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