As a Bangel, how do you feel about the inevitable Spuffy ILY?

Status
Not open for further replies.
OK so, I loved season 8. [with the exception of Twilight & Angel's character assassination] I loved the big, huge, comic-book-y plot. Everyone else HATED it with a firey passion. But there was all the typical Whedon stuff too. The language, the pop culture references, the tension, references to the show, Fray gorramitt!!! I really see the subsequent seasons as a big FU from Joss et al to the fans for complaining so much. I'm sure I'm wrong but MAN did people complain! 😀

S8 was an adjustment for me because I had never read comics before and the nutty-ness of it was Weird. I should go back and read it now. I loved Angel and Faith S9 and I liked ATF (IDW) except the ending I though was lame.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
There were MANY comics in the ATF series and some were better than others for sure.
S8 was an adjustment for me because I had never read comics before and the nutty-ness of it was Weird. I should go back and read it now. I loved Angel and Faith S9 and I liked ATF (IDW) except the ending I though was lame.
I completely understand that! Lots of Buffy fans had never read comics and for some of them, it actually got them into the world of comics, which was a good thing for Dark Horse and other comics' publishers. But it is a big adjustment. I've been reading comics since I was a child so I totally "got" the world, but even then, moving a beloved franchise from one medium to another, especially for an audience not used to that, is difficult. Buffy really started a trend though and currently everyone is doing it! I'm not saying it's always a good thing because it's not always done well, and sometimes (let's be honest) it's just time for series or franchises to die lol. But it can be a great way to continue or expand a franchise.
 
They showed him grappling with his soul,

Interesting which comics show Spike grappling with his soul? Didn’t Joss say the Spike off shoots and aftermath we not canon? You prob know more than me about that.
 
I am so happy that I finally found people who also think Spike's treatment of Wood was disgusting. It doesn't matter how many times I rewatch the episode, Buffy siding with him just makes me so 😡😡😡

I don't think it was as simple as Buffy choosing Spike over Wood.

Wood smiled and flirted with her and worked at school with her, patrolled with her, let her give him a tour of her home, all the while truly thinking of her as "a filthy whore" (she thought it was the seal talking but it only brought out how he really felt) for having sex with Spike, not even knowing it happened when Spike took advantage of her in s6 and that she didn't so much as kiss him in s7. Either way, she's not a whore. Is Kennedy a filthy whore for having sex with Willow (near destroyer of Earth)? Is Xander a filthy whore for having sex with Anya, an ex demon who slaughtered 20 times more people than Spike? Is Wood himself a filthy whore for later having sex with Faith, who stabbed a professor to death?

Wood went behind her back to convince her mentor that she was just a silly emotional woman who can't possibly be an effective leader capable of making painful choices for the greater good and they need to take care of it themselves.

That is so insulting, condescending, and sexist of Wood & Giles.

Buffy was trusting her intuition. Wood was bent on vengeance, not unlike Holtz.

I hate that Spike still wore the jacket and his little speech to Wood. But he was the second best fighter in the group and the big battle was very nigh. Buffy saw what was coming and the last thing she needed was dissension in the ranks, secret vendettas, and offing one of the few in the group who fought close to her level.
 
Last edited:
Wood smiled and flirted with her and worked at school with her, patrolled with her, let her give him a tour of her home, all the while truly thinking of her as "a filthy whore"
Did he?! I don't even remember that. Well, that would swing the argument in favour of Buffy's actions. I really have to start my S7 rewatch!
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
I don't remember the filthy whore thing... but I know Wood was seriously flirting... till he found out she was a slayer.
crazysoulless
crazysoulless
Wood already knew Buffy was the Slayer, it's why he hired her and began flirting.
Did he?! I don't even remember that. Well, that would swing the argument in favour of Buffy's actions. I really have to start my S7 rewatch!

It was in Storyteller.

Wood said he doesn't know how any of them can trust each other since they've all been evil.

Buffy: I've never been evil.
Wood: Evil is as evil does and I know what you've been doing. You're with that vampire. Screwing that vampire, you filthy whore!

You know what? On top of calling her a filthy whore, he's implying because she has had sex with Spike, she's evil.
 
@crazysoulless
I am not saying Buffy should have agreed with Wood his vengeance. I'm saying she could have showed him some compassion. Spike walked around with his mother's coat and wasn't even remotely interested in seeking redemption. Why be so surprised then that he desperately wanted revenge?

I have to admit I don't remember the ''filthy whore'' part 😱 It's been a while since I've rewatched season 7. Can you tell me in which episode this happened and where they mention it brings out their real thoughts instead of just simply saying whatever the seal wanted them to say? Because if this is true, I really have to reassess my love for the character 🙁
 
I don't think those were his real feelings. He might've been questioning her judgement, but I don't think he'd have used that phrasing in his right mind. When he said that, he was kind of possessed by the Hellmouth. His eyes went white and his voice went scary deep and everything. I wouldn't hold it against him.
 
Last edited:
@crazysoulless
I am not saying Buffy should have agreed with Wood his vengeance. I'm saying she could have showed him some compassion. Spike walked around with his mother's coat and wasn't even remotely interested in seeking redemption. Why be so surprised then that he desperately wanted revenge?

I have to admit I don't remember the ''filthy whore'' part 😱 It's been a while since I've rewatched season 7. Can you tell me in which episode this happened and where they mention it brings out their real thoughts instead of just simply saying whatever the seal wanted them to say? Because if this is true, I really have to reassess my love for the character 🙁

I thought Buffy did show him some compassion. It would've been a lot more if it wasn't on the heels of running all the way there to stop him from murdering William Pratt (who soulful Spike is).

She started off by telling him about Joyce. "I lost my mom a few years ago. I came home and found her dead on the couch. I understand what you were trying to do."

Does Buffy even know that Spike stole that jacket from Nikki? We really don't know what was memory and what was part of his narration in the Fool for Love flashbacks. Do you think he told her that Cecily said "You're beneath me" or that the nickname William the Bloody was on account of his bloody awful poetry?
 
I never miss an opportunity to rag on Giles. However, I can excuse Wood for not trusting and subconsciously despising a woman he does not know who sleeps with the unapologetic murderer of his mother.

I think I would've had more sympathy for Wood if he didn't then sleep with the attempted murderer of Buffy's mom in the room Faith tried to murder Joyce in.

Imagine if Buffy had sex with Spike in the subway train where he murdered Nikki.

Buffy didn't know Wood existed when she slept with Spike. Wood didn't know about This Year's Girl when he slept with Faith. Either way, she was ashamed of herself to the point of tears while he pursued a relationship without bothering to find out why there's animosity between her and Buffy or why she was in prison.
 
Last edited:
Buffy didn't know Wood existed when she slept with Spike. Wood didn't know about This Year's Girl when he slept with Faith.
I am not saying Wood's assessment of Buffy was right. I am just saying that I understand how he resented Buffy. He did not know the full story and he was possessed by the Hellmouth, which as causing deadly riots.

First impressions are important. My ex-boyfriend killed your mother is a bad starting point.
 
I hate that I'm defending Spike ever but a stopped clock is right twice a day. To be honest, it's more Buffy being right and that happens all the time.

Let me gather all the reasons why I hate Spuffy in the comics and dread Buffy saying "I love you" to him in the future.

It'll be long.
 
I don't think it was as simple as Buffy choosing Spike over Wood.Wood went behind her back to convince her mentor that she was just a silly emotional woman who can't possibly be an effective leader capable of making painful choices for the greater good and they need to take care of it themselves.
I'm with them. Buffy endangered everyone in the house because of her attachment to Spike. Her choices in regards to Spike were entirely based on her feelings. Something needed to be done about Spike, even if it was just to lock him away somewhere else (away from her house full of yummy treats) where he can't hurt anyone until the trigger is fixed (something Buffy had no intention of doing, Giles however tried).

Buffy was trusting her intuition.
Buffy was trusting Spike and The First. One of them was the big bad and the other was known for constantly lying. That's not intuition, that's insanity.

I hate that Spike still wore the jacket and his little speech to Wood. But he was the second best fighter in the group and the big battle was very nigh. Buffy saw what was coming and the last thing she needed was dissension in the ranks, secret vendettas, and offing one of the few in the group who fought close to her level.
No one can physically fight The First. Buffy barely managed to get out of her one on one fight with the Turkey Hen alive, and she is massively stronger than Spike. So second best fighter is actually nonsense, especially since Spike was also a weapon of the big bad at the time. That makes him a huge liability, not an asset. Second best fighter would have been someone like Faith or Riley. Faith is a slayer and Riley can bring a lot of nifty army tech that could take on an army of Turkeys.

To be honest, it's more Buffy being right and that happens all the time.
Not really. Buffy constantly made wrong choices in S7 that against all logic known to men, turned out to be correct. That's writers fiat and nothing more.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Turkey hen :D
I'm with them. Buffy endangered everyone in the house because of her attachment to Spike. Her choices in regards to Spike were entirely based on her feelings. Something needed to be done about Spike, even if it was just to lock him away somewhere else (away from her house full of yummy treats) where he can't hurt anyone until the trigger is fixed (something Buffy had no intention of doing, Giles however tried).


Buffy was trusting Spike and The First. One of them was the big bad and the other was known for constantly lying. That's not intuition, that's insanity.


No one can physically fight The First. Buffy barely managed to get out of her one on one fight with the Turkey Hen alive, and she is massively stronger than Spike. So second best fighter is actually nonsense, especially since Spike was also a weapon of the big bad at the time. That makes him a huge liability, not an asset. Second best fighter would have been someone like Faith or Riley. Faith is a slayer and Riley can bring a lot of nifty army tech that could take on an army of Turkeys.


Not really. Buffy constantly made wrong choices in S7 that against all logic known to men, turned out to be correct. That's writers fiat and nothing more.

Buffy lived in a house full of liabilities.

Dawn: She didn't finish learning how to not be evil???

Willow was the most powerful witch in the world, which would make her the best chance of survival. Except she was the Big Bad who started an apocalypse in s6. And was possessed for a few seconds by the FE in s7. "What does evil taste like?" "Kinda chalky."

Buffy trusted her and spent the whole season trying to get Willow to deal with her issues so she'd be useful in the finale. Except Will showed no indicator until Chosen (AtS doesn't count, Buffy doesn't watch it) that she'd step up in time.

Kennedy: You're not even the strongest in this room.
Buffy: You're wrong because I use the power that I have.

Andrew worked for the male half of the s6 Big Bad (Warren), summoned demons to murder and infect Buffy, tried to gang rape Katrina, and then in s7 he stabbed his best friend to death because the FE told him to and tried yet again to open the seal to Hell.

Buffy trusted him not to switch sides and was the one who got him to confess that he knew what he did was wrong and did it out of choice.

Anya was a vengeance demon for over 1,100 years. She chose to become one again in s6. It wasn't until the last few months that she showed any remorse for the hundreds of thousands of innocent people she tortured and murdered, some of whom might still be trapped in Hell dimensions suffering.

Buffy trusted her once she showed that she was going to turn against vengeance.

Spike started fighting demons again. He was working through his issues. All that was left was the trigger. Buffy wasn't against getting rid of it, she objected to how. Having a soulless evil demon willingly fight to get a conscience/morality (though for very selfish romance reasons) is a huge boon for Team Good.

For all Buffy knew, the military would've marched in and ABDUCTED every one of the Potentials. Her main experience with the US gov's paranormal branch is The Initiative, armed soldiers kidnapping paranormal beings (demons, werewolves, spellcasters, etc), locking them in cages, and experimenting on them.

In Get It Done a Shadow Man showed Buffy a vision of the army of thousands of Turak-han right under their feet. Spike isn't Slayer strong but he's a lot tougher than Xander or Dawn or Giles.

Faith didn't arrive in Sunnydale until after Lies My Parents Told Me. Buffy had not seen her since Sanctuary.

The vineyard was not a trap. Buffy didn't think there was really something of hers there *until* her run in with Caleb at the school. They went into the vineyard in Dirty Girls expecting Caleb & bringers and when they got there, it was Caleb & bringers. Buffy told Wood that it didn't feel right leading the girls into battle (the end of the season fight) when some of them haven't been tested and his advice, "Then maybe you should test them." That's what she did. Losing a fight doesn't make it a trap or the wrong decision.

And when she said they had to go back to the vineyard, she never said to do things the exact same way. Going back was just the directive. When she said something like, "I'm open to suggestions" that was to formulate a new better plan of attack.

Caleb got in a lucky punch. That was all. The same thing happened to Angel in Chosen. And he did what Buffy did, woke up and was ready to jump back into the fray. In Dirty Girls, Buffy went back to fighting Caleb but Spike pulled her away because of Xander's injury. That cost her confidence, which was why she lost her second fight to Caleb. But she had that confidence back by the end of Touched and Caleb couldn't lay a hand on her and then in Chosen she killed him without any serious injury.

And if everyone was so terrified of Caleb and the Bringers then why did they let all of the Potentials leave the house in the middle of the night without armor or weapons to go partying in a dance club?
 
Last edited:
BibliophileAnn
BibliophileAnn
[No message]
I miss David Fury's unapologietic tone when it came to early Spuffy - circa s6/7. How do the writers feel about where the comics are I wonder?

"To those who feel my conviction that Spike can never be redeemed and cannot someday end up with our heroine, shows a lack of imagination of my part, I say you're right. It is beyond my limited imagination to see a strong, independent, female character end up falling for a murderer who would be killling innocent people were he not suffering from chip affliction."

Allyson. Exclusive Interview: Question and Answer, 2003
 
I miss David Fury's unapologietic tone when it came to early Spuffy - circa s6/7. How do the writers feel about where the comics are I wonder?

"To those who feel my conviction that Spike can never be redeemed and cannot someday end up with our heroine, shows a lack of imagination of my part, I say you're right. It is beyond my limited imagination to see a strong, independent, female character end up falling for a murderer who would be killling innocent people were he not suffering from chip affliction."

Allyson. Exclusive Interview: Question and Answer, 2003

That only applies to soulless Spike, I think. But David Fury is still definitely a Buffy/Angel shipper. This quote is from March:

I was not a Buffy and Spike 'shipper in the beginning. In the beginning, I had a hard time because he's a vampire and he's soulless — they really can't get together. When everyone rooted for them to get together I thought, "You are crazy. You are rooting for Buffy to get together with a serial killer." I was team Buffy and Angel and I still cling to it because we're the underdogs now. The majority of fans were 'shippers for Buffy and Spike and moved on from Angel. I was a purist.
 
That only applies to soulless Spike, I think. But David Fury is still definitely a Buffy/Angel shipper.

Yes absolutely, I understand that was his position re soulless Spike with Buffy. He saw no redemptive qualities in him pre-soul. I share in that idea.

Separately and apart from that I wonder how the writers feel about where Spike and Buffy are today.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom