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The Most Meaningless Death in Buffy the Vampire Slayer

NotASlayer

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This is going to include spoilers for the entire series, so if you haven't seen it all, look away now.

The death in question is that of Anya in "Chosen", the grand finale. She was hacked down from behind by a Bringer, chopped almost in half. The death was shocking, sudden and brutal. And meaningless.

Now, some opinions on this state that the meaningless of the death is what makes it powerful. It shows that anyone can die, without fanfare, in a situation like that. This is true, but this is not what makes it truly meaningless. Plus, though such may be more realistic, realism isn't necessarily what's sought after in a show that includes people with superhuman abilities, vampires, demons and magic.

For a story, a meaningless death can still be meaningful, in the story itself. Consider the death of Joyce Summers. This was also meaningless and it happened out of the blue. It showed that people could die, without any supernatural explanation at all, without a demon or vampire to blame, hunt down and kill. It could just happen. The meaningless death had meaning. Buffy and the others had to come to terms with it, something that Anya in particular had problems with, leading to one of the most moving speeches on the show when the former demon broke down because of how incomprehensible and stupid she found the whole thing.

Anya's death, however, lacked any meaning. It had no meaning for the story so it was a meaningless meaningless death. She died, her body was left behind and nobody seemed to care. There were a couple of throwaway lines from Andrew and Xander, and Xander's seemed to be completely out of character. This was the death of someone they had known for years, who might have been annoying to them on more than one occasion, but who had definitely helped on more than one occasion - especially in Glory's defeat - and wo did try, and the Scooby Gang spent more time mourning the loss of Sunnydale's mall than of Anya. This robbed her death of meaning in the story.

Later, Emma Caulfield Ford commented on this in interviews. The impression given was that the writers wanted someone to die, and they had to be a relatively major character. Anya was a logical choice, as Emma had said she didn't want to do another season, so her death was chosen. And chosen in a very brutal way. But the treatment after the death gave the impression that the writers thought "Oh, Anya died! We need to have something said." and just quickly wrote a couple of lines to barely acknowledge this. Given that this was the death of someone Xander clearly still loved, his response just didn't make sense.

For Anya's character, her death wasn't needed. Yes, she had changed and grown, but a death of another, such as Andrew, would have helped her grow more. The final season gave the definite impression that Andrew and Kennedy were the shiny new toys to keep around and play with, even if it was at the expense of some of the other characters. And, true or not, there was a definite impression that Josh Whedon wasn't keen on the character, even though she had great lines that were very well acted, with Emma managing to say some things that really shouldn't be publicly said as if they were perfectly normal.

If there had been an eighth season, Anya wouldn't have been in it. But that didn't mean her character had to die, or die the way she did.

I only recently finished watching the series - last week - and I never expected to be as affected by a fictional character as I was in this case. I had a need to get my feelings written down.
 

Tome

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Black Thorn
I disagree. Anya's death WAS meaningful to her character. For most of the show, she disliked humans and looked down on them, especially men. The fact that she died to protect a very flawed guy (Andrew) is quite the conclusion to her character arc.

I also disagree that nobody cared. The only people who were aware that she died (Andrew and Xander) clearly were quite emotional over her death. I'm sure that later on, when everybody else found out how and why Anya died, that quite a few of them were moved by her death.

I disliked Anya quite a bit throughout the show, but even I teared up when she died. I think that qualifies as impactful. You don't have to pull a Spike for your death to have meaning.
 
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Bop
I read that Anya didn't actually die saving Andrew per se and that it was just a story Andrew told Xander to make him fee better and thinking about it, it's not clear that Anya was saving Andrew in the snippet we saw of her fighting and being killed

thetopher

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Sineya
I mostly agree with the @Tome . Also I think it was symbolically important that the two most overtly supernatural characters (Anya and Spike) died with the fall of Sunnydale and the sealing of the Hellmouth.
It added to the sense of a definitive ending; Buffy and her now mostly normal 'family' (barring magic sister and fellow slayer) can move on to whatever life that awaits them. Could be a normal one, if Buffy so chooses, with no vengeance demons of souled vamps to be seen.

Also also a perceptive viewer could recognize how closely Anya/Xander and Buffy/Spike relationships mirror each other a lot this season, so if Buffy is to be 'freed' then so must her 'heart' be, metaphorically.

So, theme and metaphor; two more reasons.
 

Bop

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I agree because I think they were going for the same energy that Angel season 5/Not Fade Away had with it being the last huge battle that it didn't look like the gang could win, but the difference is Angel sold that because his team members started dropping like flies- first Fred, then Wesley and it's implied Gunn is as good as dead.

But in Chosen you have almost everyone surviving other than Anya, Amanda and some nameless potentials. I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to take Anya's death seriously as a price of the battle when you have characters like Dawn or Xander somehow being able to fight off bringers and ubervamps alone by the dozen.

The real reason they survived is not because of their fighting skills it's because if Xander or Dawn died in Chosen they wouldn't be able to sell the ending as a bittersweet but ultimately happy ending for Buffy which is what they wanted.

I don't like Anya so I didn't really care but @Mehansa was very annoyed by it as an Anya fan.
 

famicommander

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Anya absolutely needed to die. She was one of my favorite characters but she's never really taken to task for spending 1000+ years killing innocent people. Unlike Angel and Spike, she had a soul and free will when she killed all those people. In-universe she was responsible for the Russian Revolution which directly led to the global rise of communism and mass-murdering despots like Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim il Sung, Tito, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, and countless others. The amount of deaths she is responsible for is literally over one hundred million people.

There was no path to actual redemption for Anya. There's nothing she could've done to come close to wiping the ledger clean. But for Andrew, that wasn't the case. He was certainly a bad guy in season 6 and parts of season 7, but he ultimately only killed Jonathan, who himself partook in many of the awful things Andrew and Warren did. It was wrong for Andrew to kill him, but Jonathan was far from an innocent. Faith definitely had more to atone for than Andrew.

So Anya recognizing that Andrew wasn't beyond saving, but she herself was, and making the choice to trade her own life for his completes Anya's character arc.
 
Tome
Tome
Damn this took a turn, but yea if we're being super real, some of the characters in the show have done incredibly awful acts that could most likely never be paid for. Angel being one of the few who actively try to make up for his deeds.

Tome

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I agree because I think they were going for the same energy that Angel season 5/Not Fade Away had with it being the last huge battle that it didn't look like the gang could win, but the difference is Angel sold that because his team members started dropping like flies- first Fred, then Wesley and it's implied Gunn is as good as dead.

But in Chosen you have almost everyone surviving other than Anya, Amanda and some nameless potentials. I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to take Anya's death seriously as a price of the battle when you have characters like Dawn or Xander somehow being able to fight off bringers and ubervamps alone by the dozen.

The real reason they survived is not because of their fighting skills it's because if Xander or Dawn died in Chosen they wouldn't be able to sell the ending as a bittersweet but ultimately happy ending for Buffy which is what they wanted.

I don't like Anya so I didn't really care but @Mehansa was very annoyed by it as an Anya fan.
Although I still think Anya's death had impact and was meaningful, I agree with you as far as the crazy amount of suspension of disbelief required to buy that some of these average human characters made it through that battle by themselves. ;) And they definitely depowered the Uber!Vamps, unless the first one was their leader/big bro!
 
Bop
Bop
Exactly they could have easily thrown in a comment to explain why the ubervamps weren't as strong as the first one
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AlphaFoxtrot

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Gunn did not die a meaningless death. He got to kill a bunch of vampires and a senator, whose resemblance to any persons, living or dead, is pure coincidence. He died doing exactly what he loved.

Look, Chosen is a pretty stupid battle. I mean, they never say it outright, but I assume Willow needed the Hellmouth opened to get enough magic power for the empowerment spell. Why the Slayers went into hell, or let the two weakest members of the gang guard against Bringers, or how Lindsay even knew about any of this, is never really explained. I'm glad Angel did examine death a little deeper next season.
 

Stake fodder

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I don't think Anya's death was meaningless, but I do think it could have been handled better. There just wasn't time in the episode to give her death its due, and the death itself was so sudden, without any sad music or slo-mo, or however the death of a major character is usually handled.

However, it would have been ridiculous to have this major battle, and none of the major characters die. (I'm not counting Potentials, obviously.) We see that happen over and over in TV shows, and I think it cheapens the whole idea of existential, world-altering battle if all the people we like make it through without a scratch.

Also, I think Xander's comment to Andrew was in character. He often makes some flippant comment at a fraught moment, and in saying, "That's my girl, always doing the stupid thing," he is really acknowledging that he would rather she had lived than Andrew. Plus, the fact that Andrew lies* about her saving his life shows that he thinks she deserves more of a memorial than just "it happened."

(*My interpretation is that Andrew is lying, because her death scene seems to just show that she got in the way of a Bringer, not that she was saving Andrew.)

And welcome to the group, @NotASlayer!
 
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NotASlayer

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(I'll just point out that I haven't seen Angel season 5 yet - starting it tonight - though I do already know about some deaths.)

I know that in a more modern show, far more people would have died. This likely contributes to why more modern shows are more depressing and why it's much harder to get worked up about a character dying. ("Oh, right, another one gone." Yes, The 100, I am looking at you.) Yes, in this case, there was no time to process.

I knew when publishing this that many wouldn't agree, as I'd spent a fair bit of time looking for responses after watching it. Others can think differently. Even when they're wrong. :D

Joking aside, I didn't write, and then publish, this expecting to convince others, or expecting them to convince me. I basically wrote it for myself, then chose to publish it somewhere suitable. This is perhaps because it's rare for me to find myself with strong emotions one way or another when it comes to characters. I've seen and read characters I like die before, but the way I reacted to this was unusual for me. I noticed that there was a poll for most hated character. I got to Connor and couldn't come up with two more. Mostly, there are times I like them and times I dislike them. In fairness to Connor, he may have just been written more consistently and certainly had in-universe justifications for his behaviour.

And thanks for the welcome!
 
AlphaFoxtrot
AlphaFoxtrot
The word "welcome" is triggering to some of us when discussing meaningless deaths.

Kendar

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I still posit that Jesse was the most meaningless death.
Yeah. THis was a death that should have shaken Willow and Xander to their core. It's amazing how quickly it is forgotten.

In "canon material" (show and comics) we see him in "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and "The Harvest". He isn't even MENTIONED again until the comics (Season 9 Apart of Me pt 2).
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Jesse's death was just as important as Darla's reveal in establishing the tone of the series. Vampires don't take hostages. Vampires are not the people they were. People will die in this series. Yes, it would have been nice if Jesse was remembered in some capacity, but, a lot of stuff happens off screen.
 
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Bop
People that we probably would see as candidates to die, died in the series. I thought Jesse's death was supposed to suggest that anyone was on the table to die and that turned out to never really be true

thetopher

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I suppose we should establish what 'meaningless' actually means; is it to the characters or to the show as a whole? Is there any character death that doesn't tell us something about the world, character or themes that the show is promoting?
 

NotASlayer

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I attempted to make a definition of that, by having two types of meaningless deaths; meaningful meaningless deaths and meaningless meaningless deaths. The first type is a meaningless death that nevertheless affects the story and drama in some way (not considering whether it should have, only that it did). Tara's death was meaningless, but without it, Dark Willow wouldn't have happened and therefore it had story meaning. A meaningless meaningless death is one that, I would say, only exists to shock the audience in some way. It doesn't affect the story or the drama in some way; it's targeted directly at the audience rather than developing the world and its story. It's been suggested that Jesse's death also led to Xander's belief that the only good vampire was a, er, deader one.
 

Dora

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Buffy death at the hands of the Master, if she had not gone he could not have risen
 
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Bishop Cruz

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Johnathan's death. Hated it then, still hate it now. Then again, I have an irrational hatred of Andrew, who was only around because ME liked the actor.
 
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I can understand why they wanted Tom Lenk around but not Andrew and we find out that Giles takes Andrew under his wing to become a watcher in Angel season 5
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thetopher

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I have an irrational hatred of Andrew

no such thing. ;)
It's more that people like him for shallow reasons than hate him for no reason.

But I think you're right about Jonathan's death being possibly one of the most meaningless. His dream was to become one of the Scoobies because he'd been on the outside/edge of their lives for so long...and then he gets betrayed and murdered in cold blood by his one friend who then goes on to become....one of the Scoobies, to take Jonathan's desire for his own. He becomes part of a group of people he barely even knew a year ago and had no deep longing to be a part of...but he got it anyway because he murdered Jonathan.

It was almost like his reward, even it wasn't portrayed that way; cause and effect.
 

Bishop Cruz

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no such thing. ;)
It's more that people like him for shallow reasons than hate him for no reason.

But I think you're right about Jonathan's death being possibly one of the most meaningless. His dream was to become one of the Scoobies because he'd been on the outside/edge of their lives for so long...and then he gets betrayed and murdered in cold blood by his one friend who then goes on to become....one of the Scoobies, to take Jonathan's desire for his own. He becomes part of a group of people he barely even knew a year ago and had no deep longing to be a part of...but he got it anyway because he murdered Jonathan.

It was almost like his reward, even it wasn't portrayed that way; cause and effect.
Yup, and add to the fact that he became comic relief guy and thus pushed Xander even more into the background. Andrew sucks. A LOT. I mean he killed Johnathan ON PURPOSE. Faitth killed a dude accidentally and she was branded someone who had to be taken in and became a pariah. She spent years in prison atoning for her crime. Andrew becomes a field leader of a group of Slayers. Bleh...
 

Bop

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Andrew becomes a field leader of a group of Slayers. Bleh...

The real hypocrisy is that in that episode Wesley says something and Andrew is like "Oh good point I guess Mr. Giles was wrong about you" so Giles is apparently gossiping about how useless Wesley is to Andrew.

I don't know, I stopped liking Giles from Buffy season 6 but it got to a new level of pathetic since Andrew was going to be Giles' prodigy.
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
Giles only knew the Wesley from S3 BTVS.

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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Tara's death was pretty meaningless....and heartbreaking.
 
N
NotASlayer
I would say it had plot meaning in that it led to Dark Willow. Whether or not there should have been Dark Willow... well, that's another question entirely.
thetopher
thetopher
Tara's death was to 'punish' Willow apparently. :/
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